Are we the Baddies? Yes (well some!) according to the Daily Express: LGBT community is at war with itself, transphobia in the LGBT world has to STOP

The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology.

And most of the world's population. It isn't just a tiny number of lesbians who know how babies are made. And we're not talking about identity (a person's personality and the belief they have about what group they belong to on any number of issues) when we're discussing the issues caused when male people are included in the legal set asides created for female people. We're talking about material reality - sex - and the real consequences that flow from being born female in a male-dominated world.

Or the assumption that men will misleadingly dress up as women and pose threats of sexual violence in women’s toilets

Reductionist and misleading. We moved well beyond that limited issue a long time ago, both in our discourse and what's happening on the ground.

Britain's 2010 Equality Act that protects trans people from discrimination in accessing [the] single-sex spaces [of their own sex].

Fixed it for you.

Let’s also not confuse cismen with transwomen. The lived experience is entirely different, whether or not you respect their gender identity. So many people have a complete disconnect with the lived experience of a trans person, and they don’t take time to consider this before casting judgment.

And the lived experience of women is dismissed and belittled by everyone on the TRA, gender ideology side. Women's lives and experiences don't matter, the reason for their oppression and the discrimination against them doesn't matter, the violence enacted against women doesn't matter the only thing that matters to the include everybody whatever mob are TW's, what they want overrides everything, what women want or need is a complete irrelevance. That's not striving for equality, it is something else entirely and a dangerous something else at that. (I daren't put what I consider it to be as it will be deleted, I am sure those on FWR will know what I mean though).

How is it possible to argue in favour of less medical intervention for young trans people while simultaneously ridiculing trans people who do not pass?

That’s an interesting take. It appears that we are being blamed for children being out onto hormones. Is that what you meant to imply?

women are more likely to be killed by a partner, earn less, and find it difficult to go back to work after having a baby, and that people get to decide their gender identity.

Does this read a bit oddly to anyone else or is it just me? It’s as if the writer is first talking about women as members of the sex who have babies, & then saying that whether someone is a woman depends on their gender identity.

Yeah, shut up informed women who know what's what. You should be doing only what men deem important!

How does inclusive language around medicine enable discrimination against women? How can a civil debate about when it is and is not appropriate to include trans women in women’s spaces and places be had when they are constantly misrepresented as perverts and predators? How is it possible to argue in favour of less medical intervention for young trans people while simultaneously ridiculing trans people who do not pass?

As someone who runs women-only spaces inclusive of trans and cis-gendered women and genderqueer, non-binary people, for the very purpose of offering alternatives to male-dominated LGBT bars and clubs, I call BS.

As someone who runs women only spaces that are not women only.... neither by sex or gender identity if she lets in non binary people. Does she know what she means by any of this or is it just a collection of random words?

The in-fighting needs to stop, let’s work with trans people to protect their right to a life of self-definition, safety and peace.

I’m not sure what a ‘right to self definition’ is. She may have got confused with the human rights to self determination but as Prof Rosa Freedman pointed out, that is not a right for individuals - it is a right for ‘a people’ ie all the Yazidi people to elect a democratic leader or otherwise freely choose their sovereignty.

We all have a right to safety (although some seem keen to exercise theirs at a cost to others). I’m not sure about a right to peace? I quite like the idea of a bit of peace and quiet but I’m not aware of it as a human right.

What a dismal fact free article.

Thirty years ago we were having this discussion about gay people, living under the revolting Section 28 of Margaret Thatcher’s government, which prohibited the promotion of homosexuality.

No it didn't. Not in general. You could promote homosexuality as much as you wanted in the world of adult politics.

It did limit local education/ teachers from giving propaganda to kids, but there are all sorts of things that teachers shouldn't be allowed to promote in the classroom.

My experience as a woman who is a lesbian is very similar to the experience of a woman who is not, because our shared biology is the basis for our experiences.
I share nothing of those experiences at all with a male person who claims the identity 'lesbian'. This is really very simple.

"the reality of moving through society without experiencing discrimination"

indeed and I can see no way that allowing men no matter how they present into women's spaces in anyway helps women facing discrimination.

How does letting TW take up spaces on programmes designed to increase women's representation in e.g STEM or politics help advance the cause of women? how does changing information on cervical cancer from women to "cervix haver" help challenge discrimination against women? how does letting TW play women's rugby and "fold opponents like deckchairs" help the equality of women?

How about we move the discussion to supporting trans people.

If from the beginning there hadn't been #nodebate, if women hadn't been told to die in a grease fire, or been told to watch their erasure, then a discussion could have been had. The TRA's have stopped the discussions, go after them (Inc Stonewall) and let the adults do the talking.

We hardly get any MRAs visiting here these days. Just TRAs. I wonder where all the MRAs went?

Genderist ideology is the biggest threat to the sex based rights of women and girls that I've seen in my 50+ years on this planet.

I don't give a tiny shiny what some "young people" think if what they think is based on having been indoctrinated by science and material reality denying arsewash pushed by lobbyists, misogynists and others with questionable agendas.

I'll take a mad wild guess that most of them will wake up to this nonsense as they experience a bit more of the world and think a bit further than "be kind".

Meanwhile the grown ups will treat the daily tedium of being cajoled into accepting their own erasure with the contempt it deserves.

“ But the 'lived experience of a transwoman' is not the same as the 'lived experience of a woman' either.

But we are told to say that it is.”

Where? By whom? Women do not share one common experience of womanhood, however that is defined.

MishyJDI, seems strange that you would start another trans thread, given that you think there's too much focus on this subject already on this board.

What bloody rights have trans people not been granted in the UK?

Back in the day when this subboard was first created, lots of visiting MRAs would appear asking ‘why do you need feminism? What rights do women not have that men do?’

The right to not be discriminated against in law, and the reality of moving through society without experiencing discrimination are two different things, as every feminist knows. Or are you lost?

But the 'lived experience of a transwoman' is not the same as the 'lived experience of a woman' either.

But we are told to say that it is. That it is just another woman’s experience. While this may be or may not be fine socially, it is not relevant for laws surrounding the safeguarding of women and children or to counter sexist discrimination of the past millennia.

OP. In what way should a late transitioning male be able to access the female only panels and roles needed for a) ensuring female’s needs are considered fully for policies etc and b) ensuring female’s are encouraged to participate after years of sexist discrimination?

Or is this not a big enough issue for you? You don’t see that a late or newly transitioned male in a women’s officer role supposedly representing females needs and actively involved in setting policy at that organisation is an issue? For instance, the Green Party recently? Not an issue? Females adequately represented?

And any comment on how sports fit into this?

As I understand it those resignations were just a political performance. Their current tenure as members of the board were coming to an end anyway.

As for the rest of the article, it's just genderwang from start to finish.

Here's what I find ludicrous: a women's rights movement focusing on men.