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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trevor Philips in the Times today

39 replies

ErrolTheDragon · 22/03/2021 09:08

His columns are usually worth a read - this is on freedom of speech issues espe in universities

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-puritans-play-into-the-tories-hands-kvjnvnv5n?shareToken=c07fd75e30bb1c998569b0996c4d9969

Also there's this

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liam-fox-urges-politicians-to-defend-public-figures-such-as-jk-rowling-against-bullying-mob-zvbwtw59g?shareToken=5180f71cee9081afe1ccb3479536c221

Re JKR:
“The sinister part was that it was not a counterattack or riposte to the views she had posted but an attempt to delegitimise her and thus her intervention.”

OP posts:
PerkingFaintly · 22/03/2021 10:32

I was under the impression...

Of course. Because there has been dedicated messaging to this effect – including by a particularly energetic poster on MN early on.

But even the poster promoting Conservatives for Women admitted that the reason the group had been formed was that the other Tory women's group "didn't know what a woman was".

So no, it's not a case of Tory = pro-women's rights, everyone else = anti-women's rights.

They've played a blinder to make this some sort of accepted wisdom, though. I have to hand it to them.

PerkingFaintly · 22/03/2021 10:28

The whole reform of the GRA was brought forward by the Tories. Maria Miller called women "fake feminists" for raising concerns about conflicting rights.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 22/03/2021 10:23

@PerkingFaintly

And when I say "happened on their watch", in some cases I mean "were actively done by the current, Tory, government."
What developments do you mean, PerkingFaintly? And what has been actively done by the current Tory government?

I was under the impression it was the LibDems, Greens and Labour that were pushing identity politics more and that (some (most?) not all) Tories were obstructing this.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/03/2021 10:22

@Socrates11

Thanks for those. Used up my two articles yesterday. Going to have a mull on how intelligent the seemingly unsackable Liar Fox sounds in that second article. Can't be him verbotum surely?
Perhaps he's got the benefit of a speechwriter? A profession which I'd guess is pretty interested in freedom of speech and very aware of the ways in which it's challenged.
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Tibtom · 22/03/2021 10:13

@zanahoria

Does JK Rowling need protection from “the bullying of the mob”?

Its not really about her but the people like Maya who she is standing up for.

Why should JKR have to put up with the level of abuse and bullying? Are you suggesting it is ok to threaten people if they can afford a security guard? OK to subject them to hate and filth if they have been successful? To slander them anonymously because they have money to buy food?
LizzieSiddal · 22/03/2021 10:10

Does JK Rowling need protection from “the bullying of the mob”?

Its not really about her but the people like Maya who she is standing up for.

Considering she had to up her security and received numerous deaths and rape threats, yes I think JKR does deserve protection. As does every woman who needs it.

PearPickingPorky · 22/03/2021 10:08

The elite Oxbridge debating societies have long provided a rite of passage for Conservative prime ministers, including Boris Johnson. They give us an early sight of the character of future leaders. Michael Gove arrived at Oxford and instantly became what he himself describes as a “votary” of Boris Johnson. Theresa May never won the top varsity job but she would probably say that student politics gave her a greater prize: she was introduced to her husband, Philip, himself a president of the Union, by Benazir Bhutto, later to become prime minister of Pakistan and herself the first woman of colour to occupy the chair.

Confused

Don't worry, little woman, at least you found yourself a husband and that is most important.

PerkingFaintly · 22/03/2021 10:08

And when I say "happened on their watch", in some cases I mean "were actively done by the current, Tory, government."

PerkingFaintly · 22/03/2021 10:05

The govt may need to get to grips with a culture that has emerged on their watch

Why on earth would they, when they're being so successful at blaming things that happen on their watch, on everyone else?

All these developments happened under a Tory government, so obviously we must vote for another Tory government to stop these things.

zanahoria · 22/03/2021 10:03

Does JK Rowling need protection from “the bullying of the mob”?

Its not really about her but the people like Maya who she is standing up for.

Imnobody4 · 22/03/2021 10:03

I'm in exactly the same position. I'm now resigned to never seeing another Labour Gov in my lifetime.

MichelleofzeResistance · 22/03/2021 09:57

I'm a floating voter in the same boat SirSamuel

I wonder about the discussions that will be taking place in Whitehall this morning after last night's appalling attack on the police. The govt may need to get to grips with a culture that has emerged on their watch, of those who feel entitled to act on their feelings in any way they like regardless of impact on others, that a bandwagon attracts those who just enjoy releasing antisocial feeling and behaviours and a cause that offers opportunity to do so, and are no longer able to recognise or act on standard boundaries of social behaviour.

When you create situations politically in which some people can get away with behaviours that others can't - and expect to, and wish to push the limits of this - and where feelings create reality and not facts, and a good rage/acting out successfully pressures organisations into giving what is wanted because 'no' and standing up to tantrums has become a lost skill and there's no backbone for it - there's a price for this. It isn't the way to a peaceful, successful (or inclusive) society.

Socrates11 · 22/03/2021 09:53

Thanks for those. Used up my two articles yesterday. Going to have a mull on how intelligent the seemingly unsackable Liar Fox sounds in that second article. Can't be him verbotum surely?

SirSamuelVimes · 22/03/2021 09:41

Both good articles. Trevor Phillips is excellent and is bang on about handing the future to the Tories. I'm naturally centre left but I will probably find myself voting Tory in the next election purely to stop Labour, with their ridiculous obsession with identity politics and TWAW mantras, from getting in. I'm anti Brexit, anti austery, anti privatisation and spoiled my vote at the last election because I didn't want to vote in endorsement of those things. But I don't want to spoil another vote and I can't vote Labour, Lib Dem or Green while they continue to piss on women. So it's Tory or nothing.

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