Trans athletes in women's sports speak out - RT documentary

Slightly OT but on one of the trans subreddit one transwomen posted about how they thought that whilst people used preferred pronouns etc, they thought that people were only using them out of politeness and didn't really think that they were a woman. There were loads of replies saying the similar thing. Who'd have thought that people dont think twaw?

I watched the whole thing and I am really glad that I heard Beth Stelzer and Jennifer Wagner-Assali share their experiences and opinions.

Russia Today only presented honest facts and opinions. That is a very light touch if some are implying an intention to exacerbate divisions. That the USA and much of the Western world have allowed gender ideology to gain such traction that it is causing domestic problems is pretty much entirely on the Western nations involved. Russia just needs to get in the popcorn in.

Just watched this.

Curious as to the power lifters statements, says their gender is fluid, but says gender had to be declared to compete.

So you can self-identify to compete?

Yeah. Not enjoying watching a Russia Today documentary. Any more than finding Pauline Hanson, of all toxic people, is getting traction from this issue.

None of that stops women's sport being for women. The USSR used to talk about American racism, all of which was true, and none of which made Soviet communism anything other than appalling dictatorship.

Or, if there’s such a big overlap- they could compete in the men’s competition. But they won’t do that because they wouldn’t win! They would be very average male athletes, move into women’s sport and they become winning athletes. I don’t know a single person in real life who agrees with trans women competing in women’s sport. Even my own super woke son thinks it is nonsense.

Yeeeaah!

Russia Today has no real agenda, has it?

Great documentary!

Ivy mentioned about there being no trans-woman who has won an Olympic medal. Isn't it some kind of historical deadnaming to not mention the fantastic Olympic athletic performance of Caitlin Jenner who got a gold in the Olympics? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner

I always find did amusing when statements such as " you wouldn't know I'm trans in day to day life" are trotted out.

I think VI is being unfair to themselves there - most people would guess from the dress and pearl necklace.

At least they allowed the competitors to voice their concerns. Both the trans competitors came across as expected, all about being treated as if they are female and no recognition of the latest research about advantages of male puberty, and no recognition of the fact that women are being harmed in the process.

It was all, well, they beat me sometimes so what’s the problem. And other tired old trope .

I wonder if with people like RM knowing they don’t pass but insisting they do/intimidating people into agreeing is part of the pleasure they get out of the wearing of cardies and pearls. Because certainly any woman would clock RM as born male.

Agreed Minge & Curious and it’s an impossible one to get round.

Women being too kind or too scared to point out that hardly any TW pass does seem to have led to a belief that we can’t tell. I don’t know how to deal with the evident level of self deception because I don’t want to gratuitously upset people even though that same thought isnt extended the other way

^on

Massive, massive props to Jennifer Wagner-Assali.

No comment of the sports issues.

I'll defer to Martina et al

Certainly working class parents (and now due to ongoing financial issues due to Brexit and Covid - middle class parents) are going to be looking more deeply into the type of people universities employ.

Service users (students) are going to think "Why am I paying tens of thousands of pounds to be taught by this non-realist numpty?"

Veronica still hasn’t explained why, if sex doesn’t matter and the overlap between males and females is so large, the female division should just be scrapped altogether and we just have one open category where men and women compete against each other. If the argument is there is no meaningful distinction between male and female athletes then the correct conclusion is not “so therefore transwomen should be allowed in women’s sport.” The correct conclusion is “we should get rid of sex segregation in sport altogether.”

Yes. The quiet double take and deliberate choice not to make a scene seems to have made many certain they pass.

The truth is that when a transwoman is perfectly still I do a double take, if they.move I am certain. It's not just women, DH is just as certain.

That's what being nice, sometimes also known as being scared, has done for us!

I am still so shocked that anyone thinks it is ok for biological men to compete against biological women.

As a former sportswoman I am horrified for the millions of girls and women around the world who will be so obviously disadvantaged against biological men.

I always find did amusing when statements such as " you wouldn't know I'm trans in day to day life" are trotted out. Most people are polite and unless being an arsehole dont want to offend/upset people. I think that often leads to delusion of passing

@Teawamutu
Slight derail, but why not chaiwamutu?

Multiple choice tests for Philosophy 101!!!

Veronica resigned alright. The people Veronica mentions here (before leaving) are Veronica's colleagues.

And here's the appraisal.

So from the description under the video - VMcK and JC named, with long sections of the video featuring their names and personalising them and their struggles - while JWA and the female power lifter (Brianna - I struggled to find where her name was acknowleged in the doc) are refered to as their 'cis rivals' rather than by their names, in a way that both presupposes that 1. they have a gender identity and 2. this gender identity is cis and 3 - sets them as the an unnamed opposition, as rivals, not as fellow competitors or equals.

I say this purely as observation but its a story as old as time. One type of person is centered and treated as human, with the story personalised about them and another type of person is treated as the other with language and direction of attention demonstrating the lack of respect shown to them and fact that they are always considered the other, not quite human.

I Posted this yesterday.