Trans athletes in women's sports speak out - RT documentary

So very clear women are not allowed to say no. Major league gaslighting.

Oh and for the two clearly male athletes in this documentary who think it's unfair to be seen as women in every aspect except sport: you're right. That's why more people need to open there eyes and stop ceding more and more ground to them.

You are men in every regard. Not merely in sport.

Hope that clears things up.

Also- the scrolling text makes my blood boil.

I hope that international sports takes the easy route

blood sample chromosome tested
on the spot

Y chromosome women's competition

simple

At the end she says "do they really think that this is fair? I just don't believe it."

This is the crux of the matter for me.

It will likely get me banned. Again . But I genuinely think these men are not good people. Anyone with a conscience would not do this to women. They clearly have no moral compass.

iirc, Veronica Ivy (when R McK) argues that it's a breach of human rights for sports bodies to advocate that any adjustment to levels is necessary.

FWIW I agree with them (a stopped clock, and all that). It is a breach of human rights to require a person to perform body modification in order to access something. But it's an even greater breach of women's human rights to appropriate their rights, spaces and opportunities.

"queerness for me is just as much political as it is personal"

Very telling.

I well and truly don’t understand why the people who don’t think it’s fair for TW to compete in female sports categories can’t extrapolate that into all the other areas that are compromised by the TWAW approach. If it’s not fair in sport then why is it fair in single sex spaces that exist to safeguard women or bursaries designed to support women etc? It’s such a huge failure of logic that I can’t understand it.

Well at least VI is not teaching anymore. I'd want my money back and compensation for wasted time, had I been unfortunate enough to have them as a lecturer.

Daisies, I believe that Dr McK didn't get much coaching in track cycling while living as a man, because Dr McK only took up track cycling a very short time before suddenly becoming Masters' women's world champion. What an incredible new talent in women's cycling Dr McK turned out to be.

Ariela, how about because separate categories aren't needed? Everyone is either male or female.

Thanks for the article link.
To be allowed higher levels than the women competing is bizarre.

I looked up male (life course) testosterone levels and they are massive in comparison to women's. Without testing, competing would be futile.

I found it rather strange that another participant listed reasons for separate “gender” categories being the lack of good coaching for women and female socialisation leading to girls not climbing trees or being as active as boys in childhood. So I did wonder what reason transwomen who have experienced male socialisation and male coaching until transitioning could possibly have to complete in the female category. I think the other interviewee may have been less disingenuous - it is about validation not about what is fair or reasonable.

Genuinely can’t do this anymore, like a PP upthread I’ve had enough of it. I no longer feel the desire to be kind and inclusive and have rational discussion. I want to tell the lot of them some things they’ll likely scream terf about, but would also get me banned from MN.

ariela

That is not wanted.

Tbf it would probably also only work at a national level too due to lack of competition.

Why isn't there a separate category for Trans Women and another for Trans Men? Then there'd be a level playing field, or have I got this all wrong?

So the only actual requirement is lowering testosterone levels and they are allowed to compete. Wow.

iirc, Veronica Ivy (when R McK) argues that it's a breach of human rights for sports bodies to advocate that any adjustment to levels is necessary.

Bearden agrees with the International Olympic Committee that naturally occurring testosterone gives transgender women an unfair advantage in competition against cisgender women, meaning women who were born female, while McKinnon believes subjecting trans women to testosterone blocking violates their human rights.

eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/01/11/these-transgender-cyclists-have-olympian-disagreement-how-define-fairness/995434001/

Yep Dwrcegin plus that lowered testosterone level is still higher than that allowed for women

Massive, massive props to Jennifer Wagner-Assali.

Absolutely. She came across so, so well.

Others, not so much.

RE: Just read who Laurel Hubbard is.

So the only actual requirement is lowering testosterone levels and they are allowed to compete. Wow.

Before now, I assumed they had to have had full surgery.

So you can self-identify to compete?

iirc, Laurel Hubbard is a powerlifter.

I don’t know a single person in real life who agrees with trans women competing in women’s sport. Even my own super woke son thinks it is nonsense

Ditto here with my Gen X son.

It's definitely a wedge issue. Which is veeeery interesting and useful to know.

They have been told, it seems that they can have expectations that everyone around them will actually believe that they actually are what they say they are, it is only human that we reserve our own judgment and have our own opinions even if we strive to be polite and “kind”. Being able to control what people actually believe rather than just what they say requires some serious 1984 techniques.

Lying does seem to engender paranoia in those being lied to even if it was they who asked to be protected from the truth in the first place.

Masters must have sometimes felt rather uneasy about what their slaves really thought of them for example.

But but.....Of course we’re only using them out of politeness - or fear, of course we don’t think they’re actual women because they’re not

I really worry what people are being told by doctors and therapists