The time: how do we stop men harming women?

I really, really, really don't think things were better before the 90s.

Domestic abuse was widely accepted and low level violence maintained the status quo in schools and work places.

The social order ensured that many victims remained silent because some lives were deemed to have less value. I'm not talking about 21st century concepts of racism and sexism - I mean people in positions of authority were prepared to say openly that some lives had less value.

It was accepted that boys would want to look at dirty magazines, as they had never seen a real naked body before, but it s always thought of as seedy if men were buying it looking at those. My thoughts are that this all changed in the 90s when Nuts, Zoo and FHM became popular. Lad culture

And also the rise of the ladette. As an example, women can be savages at a male strip club.

It's permissive behaviour in general that permeates it. There's been a fightback against anything that is socially conservative for at least a generation.

Obviously women were there - I'm not arguing that women never take part in protests.

I'm talking specifically about the violence that occurred at the protest.

I'm thinking partly about the violence in Bristol yesterday
I looked at the video on the Mirror front page, mostly people filming the trouble and woman's voice laughing. So some were there.
Women protest and get lots of front page pics if dragged away by police, especially older women (thinking of X Rebellion).

I've not read the whole thread yet. But my thoughts at the moment are that many of us have been highlighting this issue for years and only now is the penny dropping that there is an endemic problem that begins in pre-teen/teen boys. I'm left wondering how is this still being debated and no action taken.

Anyone in their 40s/50s knows it wasn't always like this. Of course there were some sociopathic men or overtly sexiat men, who would never be changed, but there was still a sense of some things that were never okay to say or do around females. It was bad to be thought of as a perv of you were a boy or man, and the bar was set low for behaviour which would win you that label.

It was accepted that boys would want to look at dirty magazines, as they had never seen a real naked body before, but it s always thought of as seedy if men were buying it looking at those. My thoughts are that this all changed in the 90s when Nuts, Zoo and FHM became popular.

Lad culture. It became common for men to speak openly and degradingly about women, in sexual used terms, and if you thought you were one of the cool girls, you'd laugh along or at least you would never speak out.

How do you roll back lad culture?

A few years ago there dad an article in an American newspaper about a programme that was delivered to stop boys consuming porn. It was quite novel and effective but now I can't find it. I might have it book marked somewhere.

First off, wouldn't it be useful if the adult population understood what porn consists of these days. If most parents are associating porn with the magazines or videos of their youth, they are not reading from the same page and don't understand the problem enough to be motivated to speak to their sons.

I think wolf whistling is relevant because very few men would dare to wolf whistle at a stranger if they were male.

This 2017 article (note neutral use of Karen!) is good on how men routinely fail to observe boundaries when they interact with women.

I would like women to be allowed to have an electric shock that incapacitates. Registered and usage monitored and followed up.

@NiceGerbil 👏 👏

I'm thinking partly about the violence in Bristol yesterday. I don't know the motivations of the people involved (genuine activists? Looking for trouble?), but I think I can take a pretty good guess at their sex.

How much of this problem is about specific violence against women and how much about general male violence?

So many men who commit atrocities (terrorists, mass shooters) have a history of domestic violence. The belief that a man's will can and should be imposed by force is very, very deeply ingrained in patriarchal society.

Anyway. I think it would be more productive to focus on what can be done about male violence. I agree, a no tolerance approach would help. Although I think I'd start with rape. Having a situation where over 90% of reported rapes result in a not guilty suggests something is very skewed in a very serious crime. A situation where women could get justice and rapists knew there was a good chance they would be punished would be a big improvement

How do you stop violent people being violent? How do you end crime? You can't hold back the tide.

Also research suggests men who murder their partners do follow a pattern where "low level" crime is the start
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-49481998

I'm finding the pitbull analogy pretty amusing TBH.
Because what hasn't happened with pitbulls is "not all pitbulls"
Instead pitbulls are banned, all pitbull-like dogs have to be registered and have conditions being allowed out such as wearing a muzzle and being on lead. Any hint of violence and they are put down.
Most people think those restrictions are fine even though not all pitbulls bite.
Its almost the opposite to male violence where nothing can be done, because not all men

This is about women being murdered and homicide. When you start talking about flashing etc it just defocuses and dilutes the whole discussion. This shifting of the goal posts along with demanding answers to a stream of distracting questions is typical FWR strategy.

How are flashers related to spousal murder?

Don’t know about spousal murder, but the cop who has been charged with Sarah Everard’s murder has also been involved, allegedly, in a flashing incident. We know that behaviours escalate. We need to be able to talk about patters of behaviour.

When people complain about being bombarded with questions it’s usually because they themselves have written a lot of posts making digs at people on here or at feminist concerns. And the “you’re all white and middle class” accusation is tedious because many of us aren’t, and it’s an obvious tactic to try to shut people up.

You have no idea who I am btw.

Warboys. Reid.

What are your thoughts on the met handling?

I'm talking about the institutional failings of my local police force to catch serial sex offenders when they had every chance to.

I'm talking about what happened with the sapphire unit.

Those were about rape. Not wolf whistling.

'Trying to change attitudes in society
The authorities (police CPS etc) taking stuff seriously
Tackling 'low level' crimes
Etc etc'

Low level to the authorities. Hence the ' '.

Flashing.
Being wanked at.
Being followed with sexually explicit threats.

That sort of thing.

'wolf whistles, mansplaining, manspreading'

Come on.

Of that whole post that's the (imagined) bit you respond to?

Let's keep it simple.

Warboys, Reid.

What are your thoughts.

'Men are unquestionably more violent but there is always a catalyst.'

Crikey.