Why aren’t parents worried about the effects of hormones on their children.

I’d forgotten about this, so thank you for reminding us rogdmum

This is a bump (almost a zombie one I admit!) to say that there’s two weeks left until the deadline for the call for evidence by Nuffield.

They have posted the questionnaire for completion here:

www.nuffieldbioethics.org/assets/pdfs/Call-for-evidence-the-care-and-treatment-of-children-and-adolescents-in-relation-to-their-gender-identity.pdf

Agreed. But if ethical opinions are published which could back up specific arguments around consent made by those appealing, they’ll point the court to those. Presumably part of the appeal side’s argument is that disallowing under 16s to consent to have puberty blockers is not ethical when we already do allow them to consent to a lot of other things.
It doesn’t matter that in reality these are not comparable things- such as consent for abortion by girl aged under 16. That argument still seems to be taken seriously.

They wont affect the Bell appeal because they aren't lawmakers. Nor should they affect the Cass review.

Leafstamp the organisation with the gender identity project you linked to are looking for new members. Anyone can apply but especially medics and scientists wanted- be great if they got some FWR critical thinkers:
www.nuffieldbioethics.org/news/appointment-to-the-nuffield-council-on-bioethics
They’ve blogged about how open it is to applicants:
www.nuffieldbioethics.org/blog/who-belongs-on-the-council

Also they are calling for evidence about the gender identity project by 14 May

www.nuffieldbioethics.org/news/nuffield-council-on-bioethics-launch-call-for-evidence-on-the-care-and-treatment-of-children-and-adolescents-in-relation-to-their-gender-identity

‘The Nuffield Council on Bioethics has launched a call for evidence to inform its project on the ethical, social, and legal issues associated with the care and treatment of children and adolescents in relation to their gender identity.

This call for evidence is an open call for views on some of the issues we want to explore in more detail, including:

-the nature of gender dysphoria and how this affects approaches to care and treatment;
-the social context within which gender dysphoria exists;
-whether there is adequate evidence on the safety and effectiveness of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones to support treatment;
-current approaches to care and treatment, including the purpose of puberty blockers, the gender affirmative approach, and social transition;
-how to consider the benefits and harms of treatment and non-treatment in decision-making; and the ability of children and adolescents to consent to medical interventions for gender dysphoria.’

I really hope they handle the last one carefully with the Bell case coming up for appeal.

Thanks Sophoclesthefox, I currently feel as though we're living in some kind of Twilight Zone or cultural revolution because I have to mind everything I say for fear of offending and upsetting my kids (not that I deliberately want to upset them, just that I'm torn between the truth and maintaining a good relationship. Who knew parenting was this hard eh? )

It would be good to understand which tests they use diagnose this condition. If some people with this condition require serious medical treatment then the GI clinics need to be able to:

a) reliably diagnose the patients that are trans and need full medical transition
b) the patients who are trans but won't need medical transition
c) the patients that are not trans and have other mental health issues that need addressing by a psychiatrist.

the stakes here are quite high because if any of b) or c) are misdiagnosed as an a), the patient could undergo unnecessary major surgery and hormone treatment that will create irreversible body changes.

From a Medical Negligence Claim lawyers:

In addition, some patients are not provided with sufficient information as to the risks and benefits of the intended procedure, or what alternative treatment options are available to them. They could therefore be proceeding to surgery without being aware of the potential consequences of doing so.

Effective medical treatment requires the illness or injury a patient is suffering from, to be diagnosed accurately and efficiently. Unfortunately, sometimes the diagnosis given is not the correct one. This misdiagnosis can have significant consequences upon a patient’s treatment and recovery.

There are a number of types of misdiagnoses but the most common two are false positives and false negatives. A false positive would be diagnosing someone with a condition that they did not have. An example would be diagnosing them with a malignant tumour when it is benign. This would, of course, subject the patient to needless intensive treatment such as radiotherapy, chemotherapy or surgery.

There are trans posters on here - maybe they can clarify what diagnostic procedure the doctors carried out to ensure that the diagnosis was robust and not at any risk of being incorrect.

Sadly, many people seem to have been subject to a misdiagnosis that has resulted in unnecessary surgery (amputation) and drug treatment - the medical negligence lawyers are preparing themselves for some cases.

oxalis. That comment to you was horrible. Completely ignorant of the reality of your having carried, given birth to and raised your daughter. Your reply is very classy in the circumstances.

@Shizuku
Have you considered, just for a start, not misgendering him?

Thank you for your helpful comment, if that is all you took away from my post.

And just a reminder, we are strangers to each other on the Internet so you really actually have no idea about my relationship with my daughter and whether I'm "misgendering" her or not. Keep your assumptions to yourself, #bekind remember.

Maybe my question isnt clear.
How is the medical condition of being trans, thats not a mental illness diagnosed?
Examples of medical conditions, some of which can cause mental health problems,
Pcos, diognosed by scan/biopsy
Asthma, diognosed by peak flow test
Ibs, diognosed by blood test
Diabetes, diognosed by blood/unine tests.
Even mental health illness which cant be tested for pysically will often have physical symptoms.
I've got anxiety, it can cause sweating, heavy chest, nausea, ringing ears, teeth grinding.
So what is the diagnostic test for being trans and what are the physical symptoms?

What rubbish. What problem is being alleviated by taking hormones and undergoing medical procedures? If all the parts are functioning properly, it's not a medical problem.

If it's a problem with how they express their 'gender' and avoid discrimination, then the answer is not to take a load of hormones but to advocate for a society where you don't have to fit into stupid gender norms. That's what we had in previous generations. We had transsexuals and also people who were GNC. Now we've created something new that can't be defined because it's based on bollocks.

Yea that's not answered my question.
How is the medical condition, thats not a mental illness diagnosed?

"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons."

Thats to you shizuku.
On another thread you are arguing being trans is a medical condition.
Here you are saying its not a mental illness so I'd be quite interested in the diagnostic criteria for this condition thats not mental.
I wont hold my breath mind.

So its not a mental illness but it is a medical condition?
How is the medical condition of being trans diagnosed?
What kind of medical condition is it?

"You'd better tell the NHS. They have it listed under mental health."

They have gender dysphoria listed under mental health. Not all trans people have gender dysphoria.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/gender-dysphoria/overview/

I've no idea.
Last year my DD said she has identified as a boy for 2 years. 😢
I've been supportive but said no hormones or binders. If she is the same at 18 I'll support her emotionally to progress as an adult but will not pay for transitioning.
I do see the implications of both stances. I just cannot condone hormones for my child.

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2020/?section=Introduction

"I thought being trans was not a mental illness"

It isn't, but living with it, especially in a transphobic society, can cause mental health problems.

Where are you getting that from?

*milk

Confuses me too
Especially when people still say soya mill is bad for children ‘because of the hormones’ yet seem to be just fine with all this other stuff
Totally baffles me