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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jolene, and other anti-feminist anthems

817 replies

StealthPolarBear · 20/03/2021 20:14

Just to say this is a light-hearted chat thread.
I love jolene, sing it with a minor adaptation every time I'm cleaning the windows. I have no idea about the background, but it must come near the top of the least feminist songs ever!
Another which I've just heard is sheryl crow, strong enough. "lie to me, I promise I'll believe, lie to me, but please don't leave"
Brilliant song, awful lyrics :)
Any others?

OP posts:
MissBarbary · 22/03/2021 16:40

@JustGotHere

Great thread., sorry for spamming it. One of my pet peeves and something I can’t stand is when men assume the character of a woman and sing as if in her literary voice. The quintessential example would be “Candy Says” by the Velvet Underground. I think there is a word for this process of putting words into women’s mouths , something like “exscription”.
Do you never read a novel with a female main character if it's written by a man?
LunaNorth · 22/03/2021 16:38

I don’t find it misogynistic.

He’s world weary, can see she is too, he’s biding his time because he knows she wants him as much as he wants her.

LunaNorth · 22/03/2021 16:36

I find Sad Eyes sexy as fuck too.

I’m clearly Bruce-Blind.

Blush
Miaowse · 22/03/2021 16:35

@Scout2016 I was wondering if anyone would mention Sad Eyes. I absolutely adore it, but definitely pick up a lot of misogyny from the lyrics. It makes me think of an incel /pick up artist singing to a woman he’s attracted to but despises as he thinks she thinks she’s too good for him.

Every day here you come walking
I hold my tongue, I don't do much talking
You say you're happy and you're doin' fine
Well go ahead, baby, I got plenty of time
Sad eyes never lie
Sad eyes never lie

Well for a while I've been watching you steady
Ain't gonna move 'til you're good and ready
You show up and then you shy away
But I know pretty soon you'll be walkin' this way
Sad eyes never lie
Sad eyes never lie

Baby don't you know I don't care
Don't you know that I've been there
Well if something in the air feels a little unkind
Don't worry darling, it'll slip your mind

I know you think you'd never be mine
Well that's okay, baby, I don't mind
That shy smile's sweet, that's a fact
Go ahead, I don't mind the act
Here you come all dressed up for a date
Well one more step and it'll be too late
Blue blue ribbon in your hair
Like you're so sure I'll be standing here

Link again - the Sad Eyes chorus gives me shivers, just love the melody and his voice:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fSOV_bgkfxk&feature=youtu.be

JustGotHere · 22/03/2021 16:12

Great thread., sorry for spamming it. One of my pet peeves and something I can’t stand is when men assume the character of a woman and sing as if in her literary voice. The quintessential example would be “Candy Says” by the Velvet Underground. I think there is a word for this process of putting words into women’s mouths , something like “exscription”.

BluebellsareBlue · 22/03/2021 16:02

@stealthpolarbear Harper Valley PTA. I love it!!

JustGotHere · 22/03/2021 16:00

I love Bob Dylan, And totally agree about Just Like a Woman, but mostly on, “she breaks like a little girl”. And then there’s “Tangled Up in Blue”,

When she bent down to tie the laces of my shoe

What the hell does that mean, who does that? This song is one of those things that men adore, but I think is just ok, like “Eternal Sunshine of the Spiotless Mind”.

But there is a lot going on to feel weird about, why would she tie his shoelaces?

The story as I read it is, he’s a homewrecker.. He failed to rescue her (madonna) completely, so she reverted to her natural whorish state, and became a stripper. Is that why men love it? madonna/whore stuff?

Whats the slave stuff mean? It’s Dylan, he’s a Nobel Laureate,there’s probably a dozen dissertations on what it means,

^Early one morning, the sun was shining
I was laying in bed
Wondering if she'd changed it all
If her hair was still red
Her folks, they said our lives together
Sure was gonna be rough
They never did like mama's homemade dress
Papa's bankbook wasn't big enough
And I was standing on the side of the road
Rain falling on my shoes
Heading out for the east coast
Lord knows I've paid some dues getting through
Tangled up in blue
She was married when we first met
Soon to be divorced
I helped her out of a jam, I guess
But I used a little too much force
We drove that car as far as we could
Abandoned it out west
Split up on a dark, sad night
Both agreeing it was best
She turned around to look at me
As I was walking away
I heard her say over my shoulder
"We'll meet again someday on the avenue"
Tangled up in blue
I had a job in the great north woods
Working as a cook for a spell
But I never did like it all that much
And one day the axe just fell
So I drifted down to New Orleans
Where I's lucky for to be employed
Working for a while on a fishing boat
Right outside of Delacroix
But all the while I was alone
The past was close behind
I seen a lot of women
But she never escaped my mind and I just grew
Tangled up in blue
She was working in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer
I just kept looking at the sight of her face
In the spotlight so clear
And later on when the crowd thinned out
I's just about to do the same
She was standing there in back of my chair
Said, "Tell me, don't I know your name?"
I muttered something underneath my breath
She studied the lines on my face
I must admit I felt a little uneasy
When she bent down to tie the laces of my shoe
Tangled up in blue
She lit a burner on the stove and offered me a pipe
"I thought you'd never say hello, " she said
"You look like the silent type"
Then she opened up a book of poems
And handed it to me
Written by an Italian poet
From the thirteenth century
And every one of them words rang true
And glowed like burning coal
Pouring off of every page
Like it was written in my soul from me to you
Tangled up in blue
I lived with them on Montagüe Street
In a basement down the stairs
There was music in the cafés at night
And revolution in the air
Then he started into dealing with slaves
And something inside of him died
She had to sell everything she owned
And froze up inside
And when finally the bottom fell out
I became withdrawn
The only thing I knew how to do
Was to keep on keeping on like a bird that flew
Tangled up in blue
So now I'm going back again
I got to get her somehow
All the people we used to know
They're an illusion to me now
Some are mathematicians
Some are carpenter's wives
Don't know how it all got started
I don't what they do with their lives
But me, I'm still on the road
Heading for another joint
We always did feel the same
We just saw it from a different point of view
Tangled up in blue^

Defaultname · 22/03/2021 15:53

Can you cook and sew, make flowers grow
Do you understand my pain?
Are you willing to risk it all
Or is your love in vain?

(Bob Dylan.)

Good question!

I suppose that Just Like a Woman has had a mention?

But I'm not so sure that To Ramona, which was referenced upthread, is irredeemable, not least because it ends with:

Everything passes
Everything changes
Just do what you think you should do
And someday maybe
Who knows, baby
I'll come and be cryin' to you.

Blibbyblobby · 22/03/2021 15:31

An achingly beautiful song in the "I know he's a terrible person who'll fuck up my life but I've got no choice because I love him" genre: "Misguided Angel" by the Cowboy Junkies

JustGotHere · 22/03/2021 15:09

“They Don’t Know”, which is about codependency, is my guilty pleasure.. I love to sing along and always hesitate at some of the words that really ring true, and think of how much my therapist would disapprove.

I’m American, so I probably only knew the Tracy Ullman version, back in the day,. But I love the original too; I probably only know about Kirsty MacColl from lurking a thread here of people freaking out about Fairytale of New York, and that’s been my favorite version ever since, her voice is just so sweet I can hardly stand it.

Defaultname · 22/03/2021 12:59

Wasn't Born a Man by Dana Gillespie.
I mean, how could a true feminist even know if she was born a man/woman/whatever?
(Only kidding).

SirSamuelVimes · 22/03/2021 12:09

@KisstheTeapot14 you'll have to fight me for Mr Bloom!

KisstheTeapot14 · 22/03/2021 11:54

@MistyGreenAndBlue this line makes me giggle as I always imagine comedy hats, like sou'wester rain hat, woolly bobble hat, lady in the tutti fruity hat etc

or

Mr Bloom (even though he's a pretend Northerner). I wouldn't mind if he kept his hat on.

Just saying.

KisstheTeapot14 · 22/03/2021 11:51

Looks like Jolene has prevented at least one RL affair, one poster upthread said she heard it during a time she was being pursued by a married man and it made up her mind to stop it before it started.

It takes 2 to tango so maybe Jolene is a feminist song in a way.

I've always felt its very unfeminist to have a relationship with someone you know is already 'engaged' as it were. Horrible thing to do to another woman (yes, yes, I know the man is not blameless before people pile on).

I like the Dolly Vaccine song, and now off to look for the metal version of Jolene as destroying entity that must be appeased.

Bit like Bill Bailey singing 'Twinkle Twinkle' in death metal mode I expect.

(Limboland - on iplayer, brilliant musical fun as he always is).

KisstheTeapot14 · 22/03/2021 11:26

Thank Heaven for Little Girls.

Yuck.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 22/03/2021 11:12

Shout out for "You can Keep Your Hat On"
I mean REALLY?

StrangeLookingParasite · 21/03/2021 22:15

@ErrolTheDragon

My dawg comment was meant to be mildly taking the piss out of the one I responded to but evidently failed massively.
I got the joke, it reminded me of the other one about how if you play country songs backwards you get your wife back, your house back, your horse back... etc.

I too loathe sexual healing, it's always given me the creeps.

I will always love you is also the source of one of my more favourite jokes: what is Whitney Houston's favourite for of co-ordination?
(h)and Iiiiiii-ye-iiiiii

In terms of older country music, I used to sing Patsy Cline when cleaning the house. Songs like the doormat song (actual name I don't wanna)

Don't wanta walk unless I'm walkin' with you
Don't wanta talk unless I'm talkin' to you
Don't wanta be lonesome, don't wanta be blue
Baby, that's how much I love you
Don't wanta cry unless I'm cryin' for you
Don't wanta sigh unless I'm sighin' for you
Don't wanta be found with somebody new
Baby, that's how much I love you
I built my whole world around you
Darlin', don't ever break my heart
I'm so glad that I found you
And in my life, you'll always play a part

LunaNorth · 21/03/2021 21:17

@justilou1

Catchy tune, but WTAF?!?!

I want a girl with a mind like a diamond
I want a girl who knows what's best
I want a girl with shoes that cut
And eyes that burn like cigarettes
I want a girl with the right allocations
Who's fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack
She's playing with her jewelry
She's putting up her hair
She's touring the facilities
And picking up slack
I want a girl with a short skirt and a long jacket.
I want a girl who gets up early
I want a girl who stays up late
I want a girl with uninterrupted prosperity
Who uses a machete, to cut through red tape
With fingernails that shine like justice
And a voice that is dark like tinted glass
She is fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack
She's touring the facilities and picking up slack
I want a girl with a short skirt and a long, long jacket
I want a girl with a smooth liquidation
I want a girl with good dividends
At City Bank we will meet accidentally
We'll start to talk when she borrows my pen
She wants a car with a cup holder armrest
She wants a car that will get her there
She's changing her name
From Kitty to Karen
She's trading her MG for a white Chrysler LeBaron
I want a girl with a short skirt and a long jacket

God I love that song Blush
justilou1 · 21/03/2021 21:05

@ItsLateHumpty - I can forgive Blondie virtually anything as well. (Might have had a one-woman karaoke in the car yesterday. Cannot confirm or deny.)

WhereHaveAllTheGoodTimesGone · 21/03/2021 21:05

Delilah by Tom Jones

justilou1 · 21/03/2021 21:04

Catchy tune, but WTAF?!?!

I want a girl with a mind like a diamond
I want a girl who knows what's best
I want a girl with shoes that cut
And eyes that burn like cigarettes
I want a girl with the right allocations
Who's fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack
She's playing with her jewelry
She's putting up her hair
She's touring the facilities
And picking up slack
I want a girl with a short skirt and a long jacket.
I want a girl who gets up early
I want a girl who stays up late
I want a girl with uninterrupted prosperity
Who uses a machete, to cut through red tape
With fingernails that shine like justice
And a voice that is dark like tinted glass
She is fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack
She's touring the facilities and picking up slack
I want a girl with a short skirt and a long, long jacket
I want a girl with a smooth liquidation
I want a girl with good dividends
At City Bank we will meet accidentally
We'll start to talk when she borrows my pen
She wants a car with a cup holder armrest
She wants a car that will get her there
She's changing her name
From Kitty to Karen
She's trading her MG for a white Chrysler LeBaron
I want a girl with a short skirt and a long jacket

Palavah · 21/03/2021 21:02

Sexual Healing was clearly written by someone who didn't understand a good maintenance wank.

Spidder · 21/03/2021 20:25

I love gram parsons. But there are many, many unfeminist lyrics to howl along to.

I think he's meant to be singing in the persona of a country singer though, so we can enjoy the songs cos he's singing them ironically.

Timeforatincture · 21/03/2021 20:21

Haven't RTFT but has anyone mentioned Gentle on my mind (Glen Campbell) yet?

Love that song but hate the message! If you are quiet and don't complain I might come back!

Mind you she could be having a ball in his absence.....

UltimateBlends · 21/03/2021 20:18

@napody

Ha, totally agree on Sexual Healing. Let’s get it on is way better, as a song and for that wonderful IF in ‘If you feel like I feel...’ Grin
I'm so pleased to read the agreement on this!! Might even be settling another future argument about this song!