Discussions about porn

Yes blackwave

Precisely BlackWave. "[Pornhub] is infested with rape videos. It monetizes child rapes, revenge pornography, spy cam videos of women showering, racist and misogynist content, and footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. A search for “girls under18” (no space) or “14yo” leads in each case to more than 100,000 videos. Most aren’t of children being assaulted, but too many are."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opinion/sunday/pornhub-rape-trafficking.html

It doesn't matter who watches.
It's consumption of an unethical product.
It doesn't become ethical 'because women do it too'.
Demand doesn't make it ok.

As for why the larger discussion doesn't happen much, it;s because the basic views in our society around sexual choices, and the market, lead to a way of thinking that has to affirm the validity of pornography both as a commercial and as a sexual choice, for producers/actors as much as for viewers.

To put it another way, the sexual revolution view of healthy sex is almost completely unable to put any boundaries around sexual activity apart from contractual ones.

That's a position that only ever gets limited discussion among feminists on the left because a lot of them are scared/disinclined to criticise the sexual revolution, for fear of where it might lead. Which is what I suggested in my first post.

But the focus on whether some women watch porn, in this context, could be largely defused simply by not worrying about it all that much. It may be true, and that means some women also have ideas that are problematic about porn. It doesn't need to be about pinning blame.

You haven't produced any data johanna. You've linked an article that suggests a subset of porn searches by women (straight only) that excludes most of the porn women search for (lesbian/gay men) includes lots of searches for violence.
There's no data and nothing really to back it up. That's not being data driven

Pornhub also publishes contradictory information about the site that raises suspicions. For example it says that 75% of the audience is male and 25% female (other non-pornhub studies suggest the ratio is more like 90% male porn viewers to 10% female). Even if the percentage of women watching porn on pornhub is that high, it wouldn't support pornhubs claim for one year that one of the top three trending searches was "porn for women" - when 75% of users are male. I guess they must just be the kind of men who like to make sure their partners are super happy.

You haven't made any form of valid points. You've made some assertions you can't back up. They suit your point of view and so you cling to them.

The damage porn does affects women and girls whether or not they use porn. Thats the bit we can never discuss.

There's also increasing evidence that porn damages men and boys who use it. Again, we can't discuss it.

@QuentinWinters

Oh 50 shades again. Because a book written about some entirely fictional characters is exactly the same as watching a real life woman being choked or slapped in porn You are really trotting out the pro porn tropes here. I see you.

I think women do watch a lot less porn, especially regularly, but even so, maybe those who do tend to like that sort of thing - I don't think we can assume not. It's also not difficult to find women who are into BDSM. Clearly there are some not insignificant numbers who might interested in something similar in a visual medium.

That doesn't mean we have to approve of it. I don't think men should watch it, I don't think women should. I don't think women should read 50 Shades of Grey either, though I wouldn't put it anywhere my top ten Things that are Bad.

But if someone wants to know why any women might defend porn, one reason some do is because they like it.

The sort of porn available on sites like pornhub is not made for women. It is made for men. How do we know this? Because men make up the vast majority of viewers and it's a commercial enterprise. Pornhub will be very clear what its main market is looking for and its effort is channeled into encouraging that market to return: it's neat isn't it that pornhub can now produce evidence that women like the worst sort of content on the site more than men. It's almost like that might help deflect criticism of their most exploitative and degrading content 🤔

Oh 50 shades again. Because a book written about some entirely fictional characters is exactly the same as watching a real life woman being choked or slapped in porn
You are really trotting out the pro porn tropes here. I see you.

OP you’re right. Because it’s not just about the sex workers or the men, or even the wives and girlfriends but about the effect that it has on women and girls growing up, realising that this is what men see in them, that that is what their main value is.

Anyway. We are proving OPs point that discussions about porn get derailed onto "women do it too"

Though I kind of think that they are not the ones driving the increasing violence of online porn.

Straight from the horses mouth www.pornhub.com/insights/2019-year-in-review
37% of gay male porn is watched by women. Also won't be included in the analysis you linked.
The top search terms by women don't appear to be violence either.
Sorry, but i think its a total myth that women like degrading porn more than men. Its something pro porn posters here like to say but there's no evidence for it so I think some posters have an agenda

It's a longstanding known thing that in female sexual fantasy non-concentual sexual situation are among the most common sorts of fantasy.

Without hypothesising about why that is, it maybe fits in with why women who search for porn might be interested in that sort of thing? Women after all were the main readers of all those awful Twilight fan fiction books.