Discussions about porn

That makes sense to me, I tend to think that human sexual response is intended to be affected by culture, by what it's exposed to, it makes it very flexible and adaptable to different kinds of social arrangements.

Exposure to media will be totally outside any kind of evolutionary capacity in that regard but media images would still work on it in the same way, I'd think.

And there is no question that what we consider normal sexually is affected by what we see around us. It's violence, and anal sex, now, but previous generations have had similar experiences. The normalisation of removal of body hair, first by women but also increasingly by men in some circles. And just before mine, there was a similar normalisation of oral sex which before then was niche. The narrative at the time was that people had always done all of these things and were just ashamed and kept it quiet - a lot of the supposed research that supported that has been debunked.

At the same time, there always seems to have been some level of sexual interest by some people in pornography or it's precursors, or rough sex, and so on, maybe that has to do with how we've developed as a social species, or in some cases I think it might come from physiological response - pain can release chemicals that people find pleasurable for example.

Whatever it is, those capacities are there within us, but the social environment also seems to affect how they manifest.

Here's the data behind the headlines. It confirms my fears that the normalisation of violent porn is changing the way that young people view sex & relationships:

Porn survey 2019: how internet pornography is changing the way we have sex

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f4478e4c-b92b-11e9-8b18-4403ae03f399?shareToken=71b1b753ccf6726d89104764210b7b78

Data (whilst it can be misleading) is important because, as this study shows, public perception is usually very different from reality.

What I find interesting about the survey is that the generation with the greatest interest in BDSM and rough sex is gen Z. A generation which has grown up in an environment in which porn is normalised and in which one might be considered "vanilla" (the new frigid) if you don't express an interest in these things. I think this has come about because our porn saturated culture sells exploitation to women as empowerment. Men have always enjoyed women's degradation now women are expected to enjoy their own degradation too (or at least say they do)...

"This is closer to reportage than to fiction. As our survey shows, for gen Z (those aged 22 and under), “rough sex” — hair-pulling, biting, slapping, choking and other aggressive behaviour — was the second most popular porn category. Almost half (42%) of those aged under 23 stated that it was something they enjoyed watching. No other generation came close: in comparison, just 29% of millennials (23- to 38-year-olds), 17% of gen X (39- to 54-year-olds) and 6% of baby-boomers (aged 55-73) selected it. When it came to BDSM, gen Z again led the way, with 17% selecting it, compared with less than 10% of everyone else."

The article that accompanies the Times piece you shared is actually quite worrying:

"And it is not just on screen: 12% of gen Z-ers say they received all their sex education from porn and another quarter say online porn made up the “majority” of their knowledge. You would assume its consumers understand that porn is not real, but about a third of people consider it to be “very similar” (7%) or “somewhat similar” (24%) to real-life sex. No wonder young women are having bad, anxiety-triggering sex. Here is a thing, and not an unusual one, that happened recently to a friend’s 14-year-old daughter. She was going on a date that she was excited about. Towards the end, it turned out that the charming, polite boy who she’d been having a lovely time with was expecting sex. Anal sex, to be precise. The girl, a virgin, declined, though not without anxiously wondering whether this made her abnormally prudish. She was able to discuss it with her mother when she got home, and has the kind of mother who has told her children about the difference between real sex and internet porn. Not everyone is so lucky — and not every child listens. Besides, this is normalised. Young gen Z-ers are most likely to start watching porn between the ages of 15 and 17, and say they now watch it “most days”. By contrast, the majority of baby-boomers didn’t begin watching online pornography until their thirties or later, and now say they watch it just once a week."

And I think many people know that some women watch porn.

But even if there was no information at all, you have no basis other than opinion to disagree that some group of women are interested in violent pornography. So it seems weird to press the point as if it's a crazy thing to think.

Not read all the thread but an interesting side track.

Whether or not women - on their own and off their own bats- are watching loads of porn or not is kind of irrelevant to the objections to it.

I wanted to point out that it's not uncommon for women and girls who have experienced sexual violence to. Try to parse it? I'm sure I've read stuff. Not an expert though.

The other point is with eg 50 shades and that older study I forget what it was. About women and fantasies of being attacked etc.

I would think there is a difference between fantasising about being the one attacked rather than the one attacking?

In a het context I would feel that a man watching porn where a woman was beaten / seemed to be (or was, who knows) raped is very different to fantasising about being the victim? And are these fantasies where she wants it really? I can't imagine many women or men fantasise about being brutally raped.

If women are indeed heavy consumers of the type of porn where women are being brutalised -and in porn it's really happening of course- then I find that hard to believe.

If it were the case that women were really very interesting in watching other women being abused then would the crime stats look different?

Whatever the true picture is, it doesn't alter the objections. Unless the point is supposed to be that loads of women like being treated with violence and sexual violence secretly and so what's the problem. I don't think that's the argument though!

Oh plus around 60% of women never look at porn compared with around 30% of men
ifstudies.org/blog/the-porn-gap

29% of women look at porn
The most common porn they look at is lesbian and male on male porn
Its hardly conclusive that women are driving violent porn is it

The study quoted upthread was a very small number of female undergraduates, so not representative of the general population.

^Xcuse typoes

I mean, 29% of content bring viewed by females.... I'm still getting around this, so.... Yet we're still more likely to look up violent porn? Than men are?

So all that violent content out there on pornhub.cum including "taxi driver destroys a barely legal teen's areshole" etc etc is just completely overlooked by the vast majority of men and clicked on by women? Right?

Porn consumers are mostly male, 29% female according to recent GA.

So it really doesn't add up to say women are twice as likely/ more likely to view derogatory porn than men.

Are 51% of the population really viewing 29% of porn and virtually all of that viewing is derogatory content?

Around 50% of women profess to enjoy rough sex.

What?

abused women are more likely to view it. (Violent porn)

That's not what the stats are saying. If the stats are correct - which I'll withhold judgement on since they were commissioned by pornhub - it's still a proportion of the small proportion of women consuming porn. Given there are far more men consuming porn and violent porn remains a popular feature of porn sites like Pornhub, it's not hard to conclude that far more men than women are watching violent porn. That's what's driving it.

they're getting annoyed because it makes women look bad women they do.

No, I think your argument deflects from the fact that it's mainly a male driven phenomenon

Yes, you haven't shown any numbers either
Thats because pornhub don't provide them. Follow the link tho and their graphs do not back up the view women watch lots of violent porn.