Puberty Blockers - impact on the brain

Sorry. Missed the other significant part of that study that kept being posted and supported.

However, Z-scores in the trans boys also showed an expected drop during GnRHa treatment. Similarly, they did not fully make up their bone loss as Z-scores at age 22 were still lower than baseline

So. To reiterate.

they did not fully make up their bone loss as Z-scores at age 22 were still lower than baseline

I just want to point out again how it seems that female transitioner’s health risks are handwaved away. By now, readers will have noticed this trend. I am sure it raises many questions.

Full Bottoms.

None of these narrow hipped unfeminine bums. No real big bums. You know those stereotyped hour glass figures.

No apples or pears and definitely not top heavy triangle shapes. Nor flat as a pancake 'fried eggs' boobs as a desired end goal of the feminine form.

No. Its big bums and tits. The ones which lots of actual women dont have because obviously they are lesser.

This gross crap is so unbelievably sexist and all about the male gaze and perception of the female form, not what it is to be a woman.

And don't get me started on the anti science crap quoted.

"Studies to date show the baseline bone density in trans men is similar to the general population. When estrogen is initiated in trans women, there are positive changes in BMD and some measures of bone quality; however, the effect on fracture rates is not fully known as studies have not been powered to examine this end point. When testosterone is initiated in trans men, the changes in BMD are not as robust, but body composition changes and direct effects of testosterone on the bone likely protect BMD."

Wtf its this shit supposed to prove?

'Likely protect.' Thats some bloody heavy lifting the word likely is doing. 'Studies to date'. 'however, the effect on fracture rates is not fully known as studies have not been powered to examine this end point'.

All phrases that are code for we haven't actually done much research into this and there's gaps all over the place but we'll just gloss over this a bit and pretend we know what we are talking about rather than give some actual evidence and back it up with hard data which proves our theory.

And thats your own selected paragraph rather than other paragraphs which are somewhat less favourable!

Jesus wept.

Do you think we are lacking in intelligence and ability to read or something?

My female puberty must have failed, I still have a flat bottom and tiny boobs. (Those boobs did manage to nourish my infants quite well, but apparently that's not what it's about.)

That's how trans girls get boobs and full bottoms.

What is a ‘full bottom’ in this context?

Full of what exactly?

Also what this study says:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6709704/

Also unknown are the long-term effects of puberty blockade, the effect of changes in body composition and the optimal type, timing, dosage, and route of administration of GAHT for bone outcomes.

And

GnRH analogues are frequently employed to provide puberty blockade in adolescents with gender incongruence or gender dysphoria. From their use in other medical conditions such as prostate cancer, their deleterious effects on the bone are well known, although these have the potential to be reversible if treatments are stopped or add back therapies can be given

I’m not sure what the bottom shape outcome of male puberty for trans men is meant to be? Taut? Muscular? Where would the human race be if puberty had not evolved to develop arse shape properly?

So these boobs that transwomen and trans girls get through taking cross sex hormones - do they have milk ducts? Do they develop 'working' breasts? And how do transgirls get boobs and bottoms if they aren't prescribed cross sex hormones until adulthood?

Trans children do go through puberty. That's how trans girls get boobs and full bottoms.

I understand you want to discuss "boobs and full bottoms", but it would really help if you would read the studies you cite, and perhaps try to understand the concepts under discussion..?

Trans children do go through puberty. That's how trans girls get boobs and full bottoms.

Just when you think things can’t more inaccurate, dangerous and offensive...

Taking cross sex hormones is not going through puberty. Puberty is the process by which mammals reach sexual maturity. Nobody who has their natal puberty blocked and goes onto cross sex hormones is reaching sexual maturity. They may develop some secondary sex characteristics like breasts or beard growth, but the clues in the title- secondary

You do know it’s about more than “boobs and bottoms”, right?

That’s for precocious puberty, where puberty resumes after treatment is withdrawn.

Do you have anything they shows children who never go through puberty don’t have a lower IQ compared to peers as adults?

"Neuropsychological Findings: Table 2 summarizes the results of the neuropsychological assessment. The mean estimated IQ was 94 (range: 73–116) for CPP girls and 102 (range 81–125) for control girls; the difference was not significant. The estimated IQ scores were consistent with the school situation; 26/30 girls were attending an appropriate grade for their age. Two girls from the control group and two girls from the CPP group were delayed by 1 year at school. No associations were found between IQ scores and duration of GnRHa therapy. The statistical comparison of parental educational level (Fisher's exact test) showed no significant difference between groups (Table 1)."

With regards to the other study:

"However, a longitudinal study among 25 adopted girls treated with GnRHa for early puberty reported a decrease in IQ from 100.2 ± 12.7 to 93.1 ± 10.5 with a significant decline of performance score during treatment, but it was concluded that the decrease in IQ was not clinically relevant (Mul et al., 2001). A limitation of the study was the lack of a control group."

"...not clinically relevant..."

"Studies to date show the baseline bone density in trans men is similar to the general population. When estrogen is initiated in trans women, there are positive changes in BMD and some measures of bone quality; however, the effect on fracture rates is not fully known as studies have not been powered to examine this end point. When testosterone is initiated in trans men, the changes in BMD are not as robust, but body composition changes and direct effects of testosterone on the bone likely protect BMD."

Yes, misread the post, I've also posted studies that outline loss of IQ as others have.

So you’re refuting all of the studies linked upthread that potentially do show the impact on cognitive function, disgusted?

Which ones? On which grounds? Like necessary said, if you’ve got the studies that prove that GnRH agonists used as hormoneblockers don’t have any impact, and these studies are wrong, then go for it, let’s have a look at them.

*The

The is however a lot of data about ten impact of the drug for other medical needs:

Eg

nwhn.org/lupron-what-does-it-do-to-womens-health/

you struggle to find meaningful data showing IQ is impacted

If you've got any studies showing lack of impact, we'd be happy to take a look at them. This is the thread. Go for it.

It seems to be standard TRA practice to link to scientific studies to back up their arguments; presumably in the hope/assumption that most people won't read it and realise it says the opposite of what they claim.

No. The more people that point it out, maybe the poster will be better able to understand it and understand that it is an own goal for some of the other posts they have recently posted as well, or.... to actually read it.

it's all good.

Ah, I should have rtft. I just saw that link posted and responded off the bat. I see a few of you pointed that out.
Ridiculous how often that happens though. 'Proof' of something is posted and when you read it, it says nothing of the sort. Sums up the state of the 'debate' really.

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown

Yes, not sure that link was read properly at all. Even at the start there was a disclaimer about puberty blockers and the unknown effects.

Trans men have normal bone density
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6709704/

Um, if you actually read this through to the end, that is not what it says at all.
In fact, it says that the effects of puberty blockers on bone are deleterious and well known, and says that bone density decreases across all groups. It calls for more research. This doesn't say what you're claiming at all.