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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Times today

61 replies

McDuffy · 20/03/2021 06:58

I'd avoid if you don't want your blood pressure up. Fuckers

Why it’s time to join Generation Woke

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d3590de-8674-11eb-8b38-e2425c3b9f1b?shareToken=5889cbe612725ac152b5dd5a21c9b10d

The Woke Handbook for Boomers

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c4908142-8678-11eb-8b38-e2425c3b9f1b?shareToken=60aa336ffad7823c3e12c640066e9917

OP posts:
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Juliesipadwillcallyouback · 20/03/2021 22:36

It might surprise you to hear that it's possible to be a feminist and think JRK is a mediocre writer and very wrong on trans issues.

But you probably didn't spend a sizable chunk of your school life getting called "Cho Chang."

So if JKR had chosen a more appropriate name for an Asian character and kids at school had called you that instead, which they would have because you are presumably Asian and they were racist bullies, would that have been different then? Would that have made you feel differently about JKR? I'm sorry you were subjected to that at school.

But what has 'Cho Chang' got to do with JKRs belief in the reality of biological sex anyway? I have say it is strange that generally no one seemed to give a shit about her inappropriate naming of characters until she started speaking out in defence of women as a sex class?

Ozgirl75 · 20/03/2021 22:17

I also think there are so many things they could talk about in a serious, non tongue in cheek way, why do it in this snide way which will just irritate/confuse so many of their readers?

Ozgirl75 · 20/03/2021 22:16

I must say, I read it and assumed it was supposed to be a joke, but also realised that the only people who would get the joke were probably quite knowledgeable about these issues anyway, which made me think that a huge majority would not think this was a joke.
Like I think if my parents read this they would think that the Times had totally lost the plot. In fact I await them telling me so. It was a little too subtle to be a proper joke for a lot of their readers who aren’t on Twitter.

Taswama · 20/03/2021 21:41

I did the quiz and apparently I'm not very woke. Never mind.

I did enjoy the comment about the trans debate being binary though!

merrymouse · 20/03/2021 21:13

No update on why JK Rowling is wrong then?

SirVixofVixHall · 20/03/2021 19:36

@toffeebutterpopcorn

If I had a 13 year old daughter I’d be writing about why women can’t say ‘no’ in today’s society - why this is and how a girl is supposed to navigate her way though all this?
Yes. i agree. I do have a 13 year old daughter, and so we have had these conversations.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 20/03/2021 19:04

The Twitler Youth

Grin
AdHominemNonSequitur · 20/03/2021 11:25

A 63 year old with a 13 year-old daughter comparing postmodern ideological capture to miniskirts in the 60's. I have a 13 year old and he's old enough to be my dad, comfortably. That's a 2 generation gap. An immature boomer raising gen Z. Christ.

WarOnWomen · 20/03/2021 11:16

It might surprise you to hear that it's possible to be a feminist and think JRK is a mediocre writer and very wrong on trans issues.

But you probably didn't spend a sizable chunk of your school life getting called "Cho Chang."

That's kids for you. Anything different and they latch on to it. I was the only non-white girl in one of my schools and there was a very popular character on a TV show at the time who the kids thought looked similar to me. Guess what I was called?

But I am interested to hear why you think JKR is wrong on trans issues?

Doyoumind · 20/03/2021 11:10

They have a 50% off offer running. No coincidence I'm sure.

Doyoumind · 20/03/2021 11:09

This is honestly just clickbait by The Times. I can't get too wound up over it.

adviceseekingnamechanger · 20/03/2021 11:05

Hilarious to see JKR called a mediocre writer. That's probably why she's so massively successful and her books have resonated with so many people.

And what's the point about her including an Asian character? The implication is she shouldn't have, so that racist bullies at school wouldn't have called you by that character's name? JKR is responsible for this?

On a separate note, I am very sorry you had to deal with racist bullies @hibari, I know too well how horrible that is myself.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 20/03/2021 11:04

I'm crying fucking tears of authenticity right now. Daddio O.

McDuffy · 20/03/2021 11:00

@Babdoc

Relax, OP. The Times is almost certainly dangling this as click bait. Their usual default position is resolutely GC and anti woke. They know their readers, and I doubt more than 5% of us could be regarded as “woke”! A quick scroll of the comments confirms the ratio - 50 to 100 “recommends” on anti woke posts, zero to five on pro.
I have been mollified by the readership's common sense (and you lot)
OP posts:
TheRabbitOfCaerbannog · 20/03/2021 10:56

Woke not wile Hmm

TheRabbitOfCaerbannog · 20/03/2021 10:55

@Babdoc

Relax, OP. The Times is almost certainly dangling this as click bait. Their usual default position is resolutely GC and anti woke. They know their readers, and I doubt more than 5% of us could be regarded as “woke”! A quick scroll of the comments confirms the ratio - 50 to 100 “recommends” on anti woke posts, zero to five on pro.
Presumably also it's weekend readership - wider demographic perhaps, for some sat and sun are the only days they buy a paper. Different editorial team on the magazine. Likewise The Sunday Times publishes much more wile articles in the Style supplement compared to the main section.
merrymouse · 20/03/2021 10:20

"It might surprise you to hear that it's possible to be a feminist and think JRK is a mediocre writer and very wrong on trans issues.

But you probably didn't spend a sizable chunk of your school life getting called "Cho Chang.""

Absolutely fine to call her a mediocre writer. Plenty of people don't understand the popularity of Harry Potter.

But what do you think she has said that is wrong on trans issues?

MissBarbary · 20/03/2021 10:17

I understand that "The Woke Handbook for Boomers" is supposed to be fun

Well it failed dismally.

Is Stuart Heritage the deeply irritating, smug bloke who wrote the deeply irritating, smug Man with a Pram column in The Guardian?

ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2021 10:14

Andrew Billen is 63, with a 13 year old daughter. He's probably forgotten the sort of things he came out with as a teenager.

When he was a teenager, homosexuality was still a long way off being accepted, girls did domestic science while boys did technical drawing, without it being questioned, etc etc. He probably falls into the trap of false equivalences.

Babdoc · 20/03/2021 10:09

Relax, OP. The Times is almost certainly dangling this as click bait. Their usual default position is resolutely GC and anti woke. They know their readers, and I doubt more than 5% of us could be regarded as “woke”!
A quick scroll of the comments confirms the ratio - 50 to 100 “recommends” on anti woke posts, zero to five on pro.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 20/03/2021 10:05

If I had a 13 year old daughter I’d be writing about why women can’t say ‘no’ in today’s society - why this is and how a girl is supposed to navigate her way though all this?

McDuffy · 20/03/2021 10:04

Thanks for talking me down a bit. I was enraged by the laziness of it, and any talk of pronouns is likely to get my hackles up.

OP posts:
IvyTwines · 20/03/2021 09:59

Andrew Billen is 63, with a 13 year old daughter. He's probably forgotten the sort of things he came out with as a teenager. And that was back in the days when colour TV was a novelty and your info came from books and newspapers written by well-educated adults with wide-ranging lived experience, not the 24/7, influencer-stuffed social media stew his daughter is growing up in.

WaxOnFeckOff · 20/03/2021 09:41

I started the first article but the writer was so thick and boring I never made it to the end.

The problem now is that people jump on the bandwagon without actually looking at the implications of what it is that they are supporting.

It's not really about being unkind to trans people is it? And why couldn't he then explain that to a 13 year old? Fucking bonkers.

sashagabadon · 20/03/2021 09:35

And I would agree with men of a certain age fearful of falling out with their 20 something daughters.
I have a teen daughter, I get it too. But I challenge her as that is ultimately in her best interests and that of her female friends. She gets my position too and agrees with me a lot. Some things we agree to disagree and it’s fine. But she is not privately educated, has never gone to an all girls school and has not yet gone to university.

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