Pronouns help please

There was a brilliant meme posted about why pronouns are a bad idea posted the other day. I wish I’d saved it.

It was basically that using pronouns just opens the door to all the “let TW into women’s sport/refuges/prisons/take women’s places on committees” demands to match through

We were kind and look where it got us - enforced pronouns can get in the sea

I've applied for full time home working . Work to live and all that. Not interested in joining the workplace culture.

This is gradually appearing in my workplace. I cannot for the life of me understand how non trans people effectively outing trans people is at all helpful. And we already know that stereotype threat affects women.

This is happening at my work plus we have some gender diversity workshops we're supposed to be going to. It's so shit.

I've read a lot on here about the subject , I feel very clear in my own views, and have decided to completely ignore what is happening at work (I won't be attending a workshop). I need my job and I'm just going to let the rest of them get on with it. I watched MKs video on this and her advice was just not to use pronouns, even if asked in a meeting, and you very rarely get challenged - and if you do just say 'I don't care what you call me' . Since watching that I've felt a lot calmer as I can stick to my own principles without getting into a battle at my (Stonewallchampion) workplace. Luckily my line manager feels the same as me.

So, as an act of support for a vulnerable minority, just pop you pronouns at the end of you email - you'll be fine, and you'll be doing a nice thing. Blimey. All that's missing is the dangerous and disingenuous lie "it will cost you nothing" to complete the hat trick of coercion.

It just feels so depressing. Probably because it is depressing. Springchickpea, if you don't wish to provide pronouns then you need not do so. Since it's against the GDPR that's all you need; good luck to you.

Protected characteristics are ... protected. It is optional to share them in workplace surveys for equality monitoring. Wtf should it be compulsory to put them in an email signature? No ta.

Thanks, @Springchickpea . This is going a bit off the topic, but aren't academic qualifications a bit different? I mean, if they indicate a level of expertise relevant to your role, then others might treat your input differently. But I guess if you are talking about simply the level of respect you are given, then I agree it's wrong that someone with a PhD is treated more favourably than someone with a few GCSEs.

Shizuku are you Redtrees with a name change? When I posted about protesting pronouns at my work redtrees posited that it didn't really matter as I'd be losing my job for being a bigot
Op it really grates on me seeing pronouns in signatures and SM bios. The worst I've noticed at the moment is people putting them in their actual username on LinkedIn. So odd. And I wouldn't employ them. People don't put the rest of the protected characteristics in their name/bio/signature so why signal to this one? Should I add my age, sex, race, maternity status, sexual orientation (side eye to CQC), whether I have a disability, etc?

I am concerned that women may be discriminated against (consciously or unconsciously) and may also suffer ‘stereotype threat’ as a direct result of drawing attention to their female status. Ultimately my biological sex, gender, whatever, has no bearing on my ability to do my job and I don’t feel the need to highlight it.

Totally agree with Ereshkigalangcleg that this is perfect. You've already nailed it, OP.

Good for you, Springchickpea. I'm increasingly finding 'nice' in these sort of situations is used in a manner that is manipulative and disingenuous and far from 'nice', itself.

So, as an act of support for a vulnerable minority, just pop you pronouns at the end of you email - you'll be fine, and you'll be doing a nice thing.

In our previous encounters you haven't shown any concern for other marginalised groups, Shizuku, so I won't bang on about things like "stereotype threat", which disproportionately affects women, but why don't you even care how pronouns in email sigs affect trans people who aren't out at work? Under your "nice thing", they are forced either to lie, or to come out against their will and not at their own schedule.

tl:dr - women won't be "fine" if you do this, and neither will trans people who are not out at their workplace.

OP, I find this article useful, on the "stereotype threat" which affects women at work, and which is exacerbated by things like pronouns in sigs: hbr.org/2016/08/why-women-feel-more-stress-at-work

am concerned that women may be discriminated against (consciously or unconsciously) and may also suffer ‘stereotype threat’ as a direct result of drawing attention to their female status. Ultimately my biological sex, gender, whatever, has no bearing on my ability to do my job and I don’t feel the need to highlight it.

Well said

minimising the OPs wishes, dismissing her right to choose to disclose or not disclose her pronouns, appealing to her 'niceness', with the subtle implication that she's not nice if she doesn't do as you tell ask her.

Followed by a wee threat of the consequences if she doesn't comply. Lovely.

just pop you pronouns at the end of you email - you'll be fine, and you'll be doing a nice thing.

if you don't put them, people may assume you are a bigot - not saying you are, but that may be the assumption

Come on, silly girl, don't make a fuss, be nice, be kind, why would you care, what does it matter to you

if you don't do as I tell you to who knows what might happen?

This is straight out of the coercive control handbook.

@Shizuku is that document from the USA?

Those statistics don't apply to countries where it's illegal to discriminate against transgender people.

Playing devil’s advocate a bit...

@Shizuku

Let’s assume for a minute you’re right about the bigot thing...

Why should I care if people think I’m a bigot when I know I’m not and the people who matter know I’m not?

Idiots might assume that. Sane-minded people probably wouldn't even notice.

You're in a pickle then, because if you don't put them, people may assume you are a bigot - not saying you are, but that may be the assumption.

This is why a co-ordinated, reasoned response would be good. I'm a man, but as I've heard before about the prejudicial effect on women putting their pronouns on emails, I would prefer not to list pronouns either and I would support members of the team I manage doing the same.

By the way, that research you link to, @Shizuku , is American-based. I think something relevant to UK would be more useful.

You're in a pickle then, because if you don't put them, people may assume you are a bigot - not saying you are, but that may be the assumption.

Why would they assume that, when there are trans people not willing to come out at work (for fear of encountering transphobic discrimination) and people still uncertain what their gender identity is.

An environment where you are expected to provide your pronouns is an environment that feigns transinclusivity, at the price of throwing people under the bus if they are still on their gender identity journey.

Oh, and it's shit for women.