Page 3 | Seeking other academics concerned by student sex work

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 2021-03-18T10:46:16+00:00

Hello. I'm an academic at a UK university, and am worried about this push to make universities "sex work friendly", and by the development and promotion of sex work "toolkits" (e.g., by University of Leicester, who also collaborate with the university I work at). Obviously, I'm all for supporting students who are working in the industry, and absolutely do not feel any negative judgment towards the individuals who do. But surely there are better ways of approaching this than the apparent encouragement in these toolkits? The promoters of these talk about "reassuring" students that what they're doing is legal, and say that universities should support students to balance studies with their sex work. I get that the guides/toolkits are meant to be realistic about the fact that students WILL do this, and to reduce risk - and that's great. But I really don't think that's all they do. Just wondered if any other academics are with me on this?

Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 13:10

[quote OvaHere]I read an article earlier about this. I have no connection to academia but as a woman and a parent I find it really depressing.

I think tuition fees have done serious damage in all kinds of ways.

unherd.com/thepost/why-are-universities-so-keen-to-support-prostitution[/quote]
Thanks, @OvaHere - I hadn't seen that article. Great it's written by a current student.

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OvaHere · 18/03/2021 13:05

I read an article earlier about this. I have no connection to academia but as a woman and a parent I find it really depressing.

I think tuition fees have done serious damage in all kinds of ways.

unherd.com/thepost/why-are-universities-so-keen-to-support-prostitution

YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/03/2021 12:57

To be clear, I've no problem with sex workers' voices being heard in course materials. However, more than one side. There are plenty of former sex workers who advocate for the abolition of the industry, so to me, if you're offering the voice of someone who thinks it's a great job, having done it, and who campaigns for it to be decriminalised, then a former sex worker campaigning for its abolition should also be given an equal hearing

I teach the 'other side' and am subject to complaints, criticisms of bias and 'whorephobia'. I'm known as a "SWERF'. Colleagues who teach the authorised 'empowement model' are never criticised.

Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 12:55

@GCstudent

The content of university courses also needs investigating. As a matter of urgency.

On my psychology course, after studying sex work/ers there were female students who said that prior to studying that content they'd never have considered sex work. Post, however, they now would, if they needed the money* because "it's just a job like any other". The material mentioned violence in passing and made no reference to trauma, physical or psychological - other than the impact of stigmatisation in an individual. It also relied on an Amnesty definition of sex work that says if someone is trafficked or subject to violence or forced into it then that's abuse(s), not actually sex work.

I could barely complete the assignments I was so hopping mad. It felt like studying propaganda.

Obviously, New Zealand was hailed as the land of milk and honey for sex workers too.

To be clear, I've no problem with sex workers' voices being heard in course materials. However, more than one side. There are plenty of former sex workers who advocate for the abolition of the industry, so to me, if you're offering the voice of someone who thinks it's a great job, having done it, and who campaigns for it to be decriminalised, then a former sex worker campaigning for its abolition should also be given an equal hearing.

Yes, @GCstudent. This.

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GCstudent · 18/03/2021 12:55

*funny how this reality that women do it out of financial desperation is so easily glossed over, even by those who say they'd only do it if they needed the money!

If it was a job like any other, that qualifier wouldn't be needed.

Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 12:54

@serendipitea

I am a Uni lecturer, and I am feeling quite upset since this news item broke, to think that my livelihood may depend directly on young women being forced into prostitution to pay their fees. Of course I never know where people get their fees money, and there may be many corrupt families who send their kids to us, but this... is too much.

Yes, I'm very much with you, @serendipitea. And the fact it's the most marginalised and disempowered students "opting" into this "empowering" work to pay for their studies/lifestyles is deeply distressing.

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GCstudent · 18/03/2021 12:52

The content of university courses also needs investigating. As a matter of urgency.

On my psychology course, after studying sex work/ers there were female students who said that prior to studying that content they'd never have considered sex work. Post, however, they now would, if they needed the money* because "it's just a job like any other". The material mentioned violence in passing and made no reference to trauma, physical or psychological - other than the impact of stigmatisation in an individual. It also relied on an Amnesty definition of sex work that says if someone is trafficked or subject to violence or forced into it then that's abuse(s), not actually sex work.

I could barely complete the assignments I was so hopping mad. It felt like studying propaganda.

Obviously, New Zealand was hailed as the land of milk and honey for sex workers too.

To be clear, I've no problem with sex workers' voices being heard in course materials. However, more than one side. There are plenty of former sex workers who advocate for the abolition of the industry, so to me, if you're offering the voice of someone who thinks it's a great job, having done it, and who campaigns for it to be decriminalised, then a former sex worker campaigning for its abolition should also be given an equal hearing.

serendipitea · 18/03/2021 12:51

I am a Uni lecturer, and I am feeling quite upset since this news item broke, to think that my livelihood may depend directly on young women being forced into prostitution to pay their fees. Of course I never know where people get their fees money, and there may be many corrupt families who send their kids to us, but this... is too much.

Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 12:44

@Babdoc, actually, what I think we need is for parents to COMPLAIN, and to vote with their feet. This is what the unis care about - tuition fees. Parents need to write to the VC of the institutions and make it clear that they will never fund their DC to attend them. THAT will have an impact...

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Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 12:42

@persistentwoman

It really is a predator's dream isn't it? All these 18 year olds arriving with varying degrees of life experiences and facing this. Who is behind it do you know OP? Are there particular groups pushing this narrative?

Well, there are research groups, funded by the ESRC, involved in the toolkits and related research. The individual researchers may well be very decent people, but who have become caught in a larger agenda.

In terms of the bigger picture - impoverished students casting around for lucrative, risky work to fund their studies - I guess this is Big Politics....

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Cowbells · 18/03/2021 12:41

@Nonsensetower

I'm also concerned about this. There are many student jobs that are lucrative but dangerous (taking part in medical trials, for example) but I can't remember ever seeing 'toolkits' for those. The arguments for doing this are spurious. Only a tiny minority of students engage in sex work. The motivation seems to be a drive to normalise prostitution and indeed to objectify and degrade female students by reminding them and everybody else on campus that women's bodies can be bought for sexual gratification. Women students don't need to be reminded of this, they need to focus on getting their degrees. I wish the university had poured the money spent on this toolkit into student hardship funds or first generation student scholarships.

I agree with all of this.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/03/2021 12:39

The uni has a duty to such students, and is in loco parentis. I imagine Social Services and the police would take a dim view of you encouraging and facilitating these children’s employment as prostitutes

Honestly? I don't think they'd care. So many workers are underage - many come from the care system (and so no one cares about them, least of naice parents of naice progeny who have attained university places).

I don't think anyone here is facilitating it either.

Wildswim · 18/03/2021 12:38

Gosh that's appalling.

persistentwoman · 18/03/2021 12:37

It really is a predator's dream isn't it? All these 18 year olds arriving with varying degrees of life experiences and facing this.
Who is behind it do you know OP? Are there particular groups pushing this narrative?

Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 12:36

@Babdoc

Here in Scotland, many students starting uni are under 18. My DD was one of them. She was not allowed into many venues such as nightclubs. The uni has a duty to such students, and is in loco parentis. I imagine Social Services and the police would take a dim view of you encouraging and facilitating these children’s employment as prostitutes.

Yes, @Babdoc. I'm not sure about the police - not great on protecting women, and there are plenty of things which are legal to do in terms of selling sex (but are still potentially hugely damaging for individuals' wellbeing). But the idea of being a part of processes/institutions which encourage vulnerable, young people (and so many ARE vulnerable and young - and it's not disempowerment to say so) into selling sex chills me to the bone. I feel we have to do something, to protect women like your daughter and her whole generation, but what?

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Babdoc · 18/03/2021 12:28

Here in Scotland, many students starting uni are under 18. My DD was one of them. She was not allowed into many venues such as nightclubs.
The uni has a duty to such students, and is in loco parentis. I imagine Social Services and the police would take a dim view of you encouraging and facilitating these children’s employment as prostitutes.

Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 12:26

@Nonsensetower

Where's that 5% figure from?

And I agree absolutely that students who engage in sex work should be supported, especially given the well-known adverse psychological consequences. But a 'toolkit' sends a different message. I think it contributes to an environment that is inherently degrading and demoralising.

Sagar, T., Jones, D., Symons, K., Tyrie, J., & Roberts, R. (2016). Student involvement in the UK sex industry: Motivations and experiences. The British journal of sociology, 67(4), 697-718.

Think the 5% figure is from here (though has been corroborated, I believe). Probably higher now, apparently, since covid, etc

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Nonsensetower · 18/03/2021 12:18

Where's that 5% figure from?

And I agree absolutely that students who engage in sex work should be supported, especially given the well-known adverse psychological consequences. But a 'toolkit' sends a different message. I think it contributes to an environment that is inherently degrading and demoralising.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/03/2021 12:03

Yes - but not buying it makes you whorephobic - so watch out!

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PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 11:24

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I have had students who I know have been engaging in commercial sex.

One was way back in the 90s. She claimed it did not affect her because she was a lesbian. It was a way of taking from men while she did not have to give emotionally. She ended up having a breakdown.

Others since then have all claimed it is empowering or about pleasure. Guess what - all have diagnosed MH issues stemming from childhood trauma and abuse.

Yep. I've encountered very similar, @YetAnotherSpartacus. For a long time, I wanted to buy into the empowerment narrative, but it has been empirically impossible.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/03/2021 11:15

I have had students who I know have been engaging in commercial sex.

One was way back in the 90s. She claimed it did not affect her because she was a lesbian. It was a way of taking from men while she did not have to give emotionally. She ended up having a breakdown.

Others since then have all claimed it is empowering or about pleasure. Guess what - all have diagnosed MH issues stemming from childhood trauma and abuse.

ChattyLion · 18/03/2021 11:14

And it needs to be backed up by messaging in secondary schools about how dangerous and exploitative and abusive the sex industry is. And that OnlyFans etc IS ‘the sex industry’.

ChattyLion · 18/03/2021 11:10

And provide free mental health support because of the negative effects of sex work on mental health

Original poster

PhilosophyOnlyRidiculous · 18/03/2021 11:10

@ChattyLion

We need to have a massive campaign to go back to student grants. It’s an investment that we need to make as a nation, especially post-Brexit if we’re supposed to be some kind of leading information and life sciences based economy.. we need an educated workforce.

Yep - putting effort into supporting students financially without having to go to these extremes should be a focus.

The financial disempowerment of students must be a dream come true for those who profit from or use the sex industry...

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ChattyLion · 18/03/2021 11:09

Sorry I know that doesn’t help immediately.
I agree 100% with everything everyone is saying here though. It’s a massive safeguarding issue if students are doing sex work surely, not something to affirm. In the short term universities should commit to waiving fees when students are in dire financial straits with the government reimbursing them.