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Original poster

What's the difference between gender and gender identity? (Stonewall related)

37 replies

Rickpulltop · 18/03/2021 02:18

Stonewall have taken hold at work...

our HR records have been changed to include gender identity and pronouns. Fair enough if there is a sex field too but there isn't.

I thought I'd have a look at my record and my gender identity has been filled in for me Hmm but we now have 2 fields, gender and gender identity. the gender field is compulsory and surely should be sex?

I set my gender identity to 'prefer not to say' and left my gender as female (has to be filled in) but I struggle to understand what the difference is between gender and gender identity? is there a difference? surely if gender is whatever you feel then that is your gender identity?

OP posts:
andyoldlabour · 18/03/2021 12:22

Shedbuilder

"Maybe it's worthwhile contacting the HR department of your company and saying that in the light of the ONS ruling they might need to record sex properly, as per the census, and then offer people a choice of gender identity."

I wonder if a precedent has been set, where all companies may have to record it in the way you have set out. It would be far more logical and less ambiguous.

DoorhandlesUnited · 18/03/2021 10:34

Contact HR.
I think HMRC only accept male or female - so that will be the 'gender' option ie, sex.
If everyone starts querying things like this they will start making things clearer because they will end up spending too much time answering queries otherwise.

Shedbuilder · 18/03/2021 10:29

Rick, I don't know if it will be of any assistance in your situation, but in the last few days there's been a court case with the ONS where the ONS has accepted that sex and gender are different things and that when they ask people to record their sex they mean their sex on their birth certificate or their Gender Recognition Certificate, not a sex of their choosing.

Here's a link to the outcome of the case.

fairplayforwomen.com/fair-play-for-women-wins-high-court-challenge-against-ons-census/

Maybe it's worthwhile contacting the HR department of your company and saying that in the light of the ONS ruling they might need to record sex properly, as per the census, and then offer people a choice of gender identity. After all, how can a company plan ahead if it doesn't know how many female employees it has, who may require maternity leave? How can it monitor its equalities policies if it's not clear how many males and how many females it's employing?

nauticant · 18/03/2021 10:28

At its most basic, I'd say that someone's "gender identity" is the degree to which they feel themselves to be masculine or feminine or a mixture of both. If you think that your feelings in this respect or not fixed for how you lead your life but are, for example, context dependent, you can say that it would be more accurate for your gender identity to be "none".

There's also the political dimension but you'd be going up against HR and they might freak out at that. If you're not interested in having a massive fight, present an argument that they can more easily nod along to.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 18/03/2021 10:28

Is your organisation in the public or private sector? Public sector bodies have a duty to record sex

www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/psed_essential_guide_-_guidance_for_english_public_bodies.pdf

nauticant · 18/03/2021 10:23

If you want firm grounds on which to request that they hold personal information about you which is accurate, have a look here:

ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-rectification/

Original poster
Rickpulltop · 18/03/2021 10:17

@AnyOldPrion it seems that way. I wasn't sure if I was misunderstanding something but I don't get the point of the 2 fields.

Surely any transwomen or transmen would tick the same option for both so what value is it actually adding?

The gender options are only male and female so I guess non binary people would have to pick a side. Whereas gender identity has non binary etc as an option.

If I was non binary I wouldn't be happy at having to declare a gender of male/female because surely their gender is 'non-binary'?

Sex on the other hand would make more sense combined with a Gender Identity box.

I personally think its confusing language.

The problem is Stonewall have their foot well and truly in the door. I have ambitions and I really don't want to jeopardise those so how do I raise the point safely?

OP posts:
AnyOldPrion · 18/03/2021 05:00

To the question in your title, I think this is a long term project, and that the eventual aims are:

  1. that sex is replaced by gender in all instances

and

  1. that the terms gender and gender identity become wholly interchangeable
PurpleHoodie · 18/03/2021 03:07

I think a lot of us are going to be making these requests.

Good luck.

Original poster
Rickpulltop · 18/03/2021 02:54

yes uk. I think (but not certain) the original gender/ sex field (can't remember how it was labelled before) had been renamed to gender identity and the gender field is a new one. Hence why the gender identity field was already populated. I'll see if I can find out

OP posts:
PurpleHoodie · 18/03/2021 02:48

I thought I'd have a look at my record and my gender identity has been filled in for me Hmm

Are you UK?

Do a GDPR/SA request.

Subject Access Request

PurpleHoodie · 18/03/2021 02:46

Thanks for this Rick

We all need to look into what information our employers hold on us.

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