HoL debate on amendment 87B starting

It is so deliberate to keep conflating sex and gender even when gender has been dropped on this. There is a concerted move to prevent people from connecting the dots and discussing domestic abuse as VAWG. Messing up the stats by allowing recording perpetrators by gender identity rather than sex is part of that. I don't know how certain so-called feminist MPs can sleep.

Last night the BBC news programme on R4 reported this as “incidents based on gender” in their headline. Not a mention of Sex!

They really are a disgrace.

Thank you OvaHere for all the reporting. I'm interpreting the dropping of the amendment as a win.

I'm worried that reporting of hate incidents based on sex will including misandry and that that opens the door to men doing vexatious reporting against women for that. I'm hope I'm worrying about nothing and this will just be the collecting data on incidents related to misogyny which is by definition prejudice towards females and it's good if the baroness said data to be collected by sex.

I know there may be attempts to insert gender back into it all though.

“Hate incident” above should say “hate crime.”

It’s not any damn use if the victim has to “perceive” the crimes as motivated by misogyny, is it?

What if you think the man abusing you is doing so because he’s stressed at work or had a sad childhood? What if it simply doesn’t occur to you to tell the cops to record the flasher as a misogynistic hate incident? It sounds pointless.

They're all quoting her correctly and then putting whatever spin suits them. What we need is all police forces collecting exactly the same data.

Doesn't that 'or gender'. Just dilute it again?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/17/pmqs-sarah-everard-killing-must-be-a-turning-point-says-starmer

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56435550

...where the victim perceives it to have been motivated by a hostility based on their sex,

Surely that is misogyny?

If you read the article when it actually quotes Baroness Williams it says

Baroness Williams said: “We do agree that data can be helpful. And we know that some police forces are already collecting it like Nottingham.

“So I will advise the House that, on an experimental basis, we will ask police forces to record and identify any crimes of violence against the person, including stalking and harassment and sexual offences, where the victim perceives it to have been motivated by a hostility based on their sex, which, as I have said, can then inform longer-term decisions."

She doesn't mention misogyny either. Some really poor reporting going on.

It’s being reported all over twitter as misogyny will be recorded based on sex or gender

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/police-record-misogyny-hate-crime_uk_6052221cc5b685610fd43327

Yes!
This is what @SusanBaroness announced "On an experimental basis we will ask police forces to record any crimes of violence against a person including stalking, harassment and sexual offences where the victim perceives it to be motivated by a hostility based on their sex "

twitter.com/SexMattersOrg/status/1372267788279119873?s=19

I do think misogyny needs to be a hate crime but the current hate crime framework isn't up to the job. Track men who assault women. Track flashers, track voyeurs, track the stalkers, track the domestic abusers and the rapists. Don't let them off the hook because they have sob stories about supporting their family or their gender feelings. Fucking write their names down and don't let them change those names and catch them before they escalate. Unlike other hate crime categories (?), hate crimes directed at women have predictable patterns of escalation and the concept that recording misogynistic hate crimes could help prevent escalations has data to back it up.

Thinking about this some more, imagine how difficult it would be to spot these crucial lifesaving patterns in the data if the data got all mixed up and confused by the inclusion of males. It would completely fuck up any realistic, data-driven attempt to tackle VAWG and actually save women's lives. Thank goodness this was defeated.

Thanks for posting. This is a win, isn't it? Based on the Sex Matters link above.

It sounds like it could have been really serious actually. Women charged with hate crimes for talking about male violence? Or would it only have been some males included under hate crimes? In which case everyone posting on the Trans widows thread would still have been at risk. I get the strong impression women would have been utterly fucked by this. And everyone's so exhausted from the relentless assault on our rights that even this forum hasn't really been on top of it.

Thank you to Sex Matters and the wonderful people in the Lords for continuing to win at this exhausting, expensive game of whack-a-mole.

I do think misogyny needs to be a hate crime but the current hate crime framework isn't up to the job. Track men who assault women. Track flashers, track voyeurs, track the stalkers, track the domestic abusers and the rapists. Don't let them off the hook because they have sob stories about supporting their family or their gender feelings. Fucking write their names down and don't let them change those names and catch them before they escalate. Unlike other hate crime categories (?), hate crimes directed at women have predictable patterns of escalation and the concept that recording misogynistic hate crimes could help prevent escalations has data to back it up.

😡 or 😁?

HoL for Dummies needed here too

Me neither . I was coming to ask for the Ladybird version...

Thanks OvaHere so how is data to be recorded now.? Sorry can’t really get what the result is!

thanks for re- posting Ova