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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FPFW: ONS concede defeat!

316 replies

PandorasMailbox · 17/03/2021 07:09

"We did it. We won. ONS have conceded defeat and will pay our legal costs.The High Court has now sealed the court order that sex in census cannot be self-identified.

Please share the news!"

fairplayforwomen.com/fair-play-for-women-wins-high-court-challenge-against-ons-census/?fbclid=IwAR0tJbErXe1wtBvuwZeNfyqs71OGlGvXQIoERD5FeBGyzoWmCz7DpkbXlT0

Fantastic news Smile

OP posts:
PronounssheRa · 17/03/2021 10:05

@toffeebutterpopcorn

So there are people on twitter proudly announcing that they have filled out the form - well incorrectly. So - that’s illegal then?
Yes but unlikely any action will be taken, the census will have a tolerance built in to account for this.

Answering incorrectly will however make it more difficult to count the number of trans people in the country so more difficult to develop policy, and target healthcare and resources for them.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/03/2021 10:04

They should change their census entry but if they don’t I am not sure a prosecution would work provided they had filled it out before the guidance changed. They could legitimately argue that they filled it out in good faith based on the guidance at the time of completion.
After the interim order there is no excuse. In practice I suspect very few entries will be changed and nothing will be done, however the principle has been established in court that sex in legislation has a particular meaning that doesn’t involve self ID.

IloveJKRowling · 17/03/2021 10:04

Such brilliant news.

Ridcully82 · 17/03/2021 10:04

Needed to hear that: brilliant news👍👍👍👍

NecessaryScene1 · 17/03/2021 10:03

I'm a teeny bit gutted that we won't get to see some more 'surprise' from the judge, and we'll miss out on hearing more absolute gems like ''sex is an umbrella term''

Aye. We paid good money for this quality entertainment, but it's been denied. Sad

Although the money is in the bank for the next round - it's just going to have to be delayed gratification. Wink

PandorasMailbox · 17/03/2021 10:03

@toffeebutterpopcorn

So there are people on twitter proudly announcing that they have filled out the form - well incorrectly. So - that’s illegal then?
Quite a few of them have been particularly blatant about it too.

They're such rebels doncha know Hmm

OP posts:
toffeebutterpopcorn · 17/03/2021 10:02

Is the letter up to date? Ie requesting how much money was spent on this circus and who is responsible (and if any external ‘advisers’ were paid for their input)?

yourhairiswinterfire · 17/03/2021 10:01

I'm a teeny bit gutted that we won't get to see some more 'surprise' from the judge, and we'll miss out on hearing more absolute gems like ''sex is an umbrella term''. Grin

But this is great news. Thank God we have these amazing groups and women keeping a close eye on what's happening.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 17/03/2021 10:01

@RoxytheRexy

Fantastic news. I’m so relieved about this. I attended one of the focus groups the ONS did a couple of years ago. They used ‘Cis’ throughout. Made points about privacy. Told me I must have a ‘female gender identity’ if I was a women. Was an absolute shambles.

I wrote to them after and gave them feedback but never heard anything. Got the distinct impression they just ignored it. Very pleased with this outcome

Who ran this focus group? ONS' own people or a bought-in service, so to speak?
PandorasMailbox · 17/03/2021 10:01

I really hope the ONS are spammed with FOI requests with regards to who was advising them.

I'm sure the results will be a massive surprise to everyone (who's been living in a cave).

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Ninkanink · 17/03/2021 10:01

🥂🥂🥂 Well done to you, and THANK YOU!! 💐💐💐

MiddlesexGirl · 17/03/2021 10:00

@Clariana

Can someone post a link to the letter to send with the paper copy of the census please? I can't find it.
This one?

sexinthecensus.org/on-census-night/

toffeebutterpopcorn · 17/03/2021 10:00

So there are people on twitter proudly announcing that they have filled out the form - well incorrectly. So - that’s illegal then?

MiddlesexGirl · 17/03/2021 09:58

So just for clarification, this means that anyone who has used an official document such as a passport to 'declare their sex' would have to change this if it doesn't match what is on their birth certificate or their gender recognition certificate?

Clariana · 17/03/2021 09:56

Can someone post a link to the letter to send with the paper copy of the census please? I can't find it.

littlbrowndog · 17/03/2021 09:55

@Changemusthappen

This is absolutely brilliant news, well done to everyone at FPFW.

However this battle is on-going. Sir Ian Diamond was on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday. He simply said that they will adhere to the judgement, he didn't apologise and say they got it wrong, didn't say they will review and see how it happened, simply they will do what they are told. Now, it may be that he's not allowed to say that however I am very dubious - they have been made to do something that should be a given. A women's organisation has had to go to court to get this changed. This should not be happening but we see it playing out across the country.

The ONS should now be held to account and have to explain why they did this (ok we know but make them say it), how they are going to stop a repeat and why they wasted thousands of tax payers money defending the indefendisble.

Yes exactly this
Zeugma · 17/03/2021 09:54

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

I think we need to make sure painful questions are asked of the ONS and Cabinet Office on how this happened. How the gold standard data collection by the State messed this up? How much has it cost the taxpayer? Who gave the incorrect advice? My MP is captured but I am still going to try raising it. Various Peers will no doubt follow up. The more daylight we shine the more other departments will not want to go through the same. We have to stop being the path of least resistance and this case shows what we can do when we say “enough!”
This is wonderful news from FPFW and they deserve bouquets from all of us for winning this great victory.

If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend reading the report on the Political Erasure of Sex, by Jane Clare Jones, linked to near the start of this thread. It's very long and detailed but dear heavens, it's chilling to realise how utterly captured ONS have been. For years.

And they've gone on becoming more and more entrenched; more and more incapable of seeing it. Every step just seems to have taken them further down the rabbit-hole of complete madness and there was nothing and nobody to stop them. This is what's terrifying.

Redshoeblueshoe · 17/03/2021 09:51

Absolutely brilliant news.

Changemusthappen · 17/03/2021 09:49

This is absolutely brilliant news, well done to everyone at FPFW.

However this battle is on-going. Sir Ian Diamond was on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday. He simply said that they will adhere to the judgement, he didn't apologise and say they got it wrong, didn't say they will review and see how it happened, simply they will do what they are told. Now, it may be that he's not allowed to say that however I am very dubious - they have been made to do something that should be a given. A women's organisation has had to go to court to get this changed. This should not be happening but we see it playing out across the country.

The ONS should now be held to account and have to explain why they did this (ok we know but make them say it), how they are going to stop a repeat and why they wasted thousands of tax payers money defending the indefendisble.

PandorasMailbox · 17/03/2021 09:47

We have to stop being the path of least resistance and this case shows what we can do when we say “enough!”

We're proving that resistance is definitely not futile Smile

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/03/2021 09:46

have clicked through from the FPFW website and taken a screenshot of the Order sealed by the High Court declaring that sex is what's on your birth certificate or GRC.

I think it is going to prove a useful attachment to my correspondence with various bodies in the future.

Good idea!

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/03/2021 09:42

I think we need to make sure painful questions are asked of the ONS and Cabinet Office on how this happened. How the gold standard data collection by the State messed this up? How much has it cost the taxpayer? Who gave the incorrect advice?

My MP is captured but I am still going to try raising it. Various Peers will no doubt follow up. The more daylight we shine the more other departments will not want to go through the same. We have to stop being the path of least resistance and this case shows what we can do when we say “enough!”

RhapsodyandAshe · 17/03/2021 09:42

This is fabulous news. Has put me in a really good mood.
Think I will do the paper one still and include a letter that tells the Ons how dumb they would have been to follow Stonewall's advice.

EllieThornton · 17/03/2021 09:40

My DH has now ordered another paper copy, as he completed his section on the census form a couple of days ago, and ticked both the female and male boxes on the sex question, and then wrote "weekends" after the female box, and "Monday to Friday" after the male box, as he was so bloody annoyed by the guidance.

ArabellaScott · 17/03/2021 09:38

Absolutely fucking brilliant. Thank you, FPFW and every woman who put time and effort into tackling this. I am so very grateful for all of you.

Sex matters. Sex is real.

Let's hope that reality is starting to assert itself again.

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