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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FPFW: ONS concede defeat!

316 replies

PandorasMailbox · 17/03/2021 07:09

"We did it. We won. ONS have conceded defeat and will pay our legal costs.The High Court has now sealed the court order that sex in census cannot be self-identified.

Please share the news!"

fairplayforwomen.com/fair-play-for-women-wins-high-court-challenge-against-ons-census/?fbclid=IwAR0tJbErXe1wtBvuwZeNfyqs71OGlGvXQIoERD5FeBGyzoWmCz7DpkbXlT0

Fantastic news Smile

OP posts:
NecessaryScene1 · 17/03/2021 13:27

Will the Census still have the question that presumes everyone is a believer of 'gender identity'?

That question is still there, but nonbelievers can skip it - it's optional.

CatChant · 17/03/2021 13:24

Wonderful news! Smile

KitchenFairy · 17/03/2021 13:22

I've just posted our paper copy and letter back to them today.

FemaleAndLearning · 17/03/2021 13:20

Fantastic news! I ordered my census paper copy yesterday and will still fill this in and write a letter about using my biological sex.
Yay to FPFW they are amazing!

ThePankhurstConnection · 17/03/2021 13:15

I am thrilled you have won, it is a very important win. Congratulations to Fairplay and all involved and a big thank you.

BettyFilous · 17/03/2021 13:12

Nic

BettyFilous · 17/03/2021 13:11

@AnyOldPrion

Will there be a judgement? I thought this hadn't gone to full JR (that would have been Thursday). Have the ONS backed down because they don't want a full JR? Whatever, it does mean that these organisations are going to have to look very carefully at unreliable advice giving way to unsafe actions

I wondered this too. More specifically that I had hoped the final judgment would go further and specify that sex means sex and not legal gender from a GRC.

I am, of course, delighted that FPFW won. But if the definition of sex has now officially changed to include the legal fiction of GRC, then it becomes essential that self-ID never comes to pass.

Otherwise the work done here will need to be done again, and at that point will be much more difficult as the precedent will be set.

I am slightly worried that the ONS has done this in order to cement the compromise position and not risk the possibility of being forced to record sex wholly accurately.

I had the same thought.

Well done Ni and team! Flowers

Thelnebriati · 17/03/2021 13:10

That ONS case linked above is absolutely shocking, it was a blatant case of sex discrimination.

ArabellaScott · 17/03/2021 13:10

@AdHominemNonSequitur

Judge presiding was Mr Justice Swift

(some auspicious nominative determinism right there!)

and the very capable barrister Jason Coppel QC

It is the best name for a judge I've ever heard.
TheCuriousMonkey · 17/03/2021 13:04

@McDuffy

What wider impact do you all expect this to have across government?

I completed the VAWG Home Office survey yesterday and told them to start by getting Stonewall out as they're giving Departments incorrect guidance!

Me too!
DerryWitch · 17/03/2021 12:54

@AnyOldPrion

Will there be a judgement? I thought this hadn't gone to full JR (that would have been Thursday). Have the ONS backed down because they don't want a full JR? Whatever, it does mean that these organisations are going to have to look very carefully at unreliable advice giving way to unsafe actions

I wondered this too. More specifically that I had hoped the final judgment would go further and specify that sex means sex and not legal gender from a GRC.

I am, of course, delighted that FPFW won. But if the definition of sex has now officially changed to include the legal fiction of GRC, then it becomes essential that self-ID never comes to pass.

Otherwise the work done here will need to be done again, and at that point will be much more difficult as the precedent will be set.

I am slightly worried that the ONS has done this in order to cement the compromise position and not risk the possibility of being forced to record sex wholly accurately.

The case was based on, and won on, the Census Act 1920 and the Census Order 2020. It wasn't about the merits of recording biological sex vs "legal" sex, only what the ONS was directed and permitted to do by law. The GRA was referenced in court as it states that a person with a GRC becomes that other sex for all purposes. So that part was a given. Neither party really had the option to argue otherwise - that's why the ONS had to cave. I think that means that the definition of sex in UK law has been birth certificate or GRC ever since the GRA was enacted. It is important though to find other ways to re-establish biological sex in recording, e.g. crime data. At least this sends out a message that they won't keep getting away with StonewallLaw and self-identification.
Zeugma · 17/03/2021 12:54

@PurpleHoodie

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47369498

Well, well, well.

Guess what?

Well, well indeed.

Quoting the judge: gender balance was "not properly understood" by the ONS.

Funny, that, isn't it?

AdHominemNonSequitur · 17/03/2021 12:52

Judge presiding was Mr Justice Swift

(some auspicious nominative determinism right there!)

and the very capable barrister Jason Coppel QC

JellySlice · 17/03/2021 12:51

Excellent news!

Will the Census still have the question that presumes everyone is a believer of 'gender identity'?

SunsetBeetch · 17/03/2021 12:50

@PurpleHoodie

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47369498

Well, well, well.

Guess what?

Always, always the case.
AdHominemNonSequitur · 17/03/2021 12:45

Thank you Thank you Thank you FPFW, and thank you to the magnificent, sane, brave, noble flippin fantastic Judge who refused to countenence double think and newspeak. Data matters, only people who fear the truth try to stifle data.

RedDogsBeg · 17/03/2021 12:43

This is great news, it has set a marker down that can be used in future.

My only disappointment is that I was looking forward to finding out what social sex is, is there unsocial sex? We really do need to know and I'm sure the learned Judge would also love another notch on his suprise-ometer.

DerryWitch · 17/03/2021 12:43

That's right, they threw in the towel as it was obvious from the initial hearing they hadn't a leg to stand on.

PurpleHoodie · 17/03/2021 12:32

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47369498

Well, well, well.

Guess what?

Beowulfa · 17/03/2021 12:31

Private Eye have to be careful, but they are definitely sane on this issue.

Abigail Shrier's book got a positive review recently (normally titles are only selected in order to be given a good kicking), with it noted that it had pointedly not been reviewed in the Guardian.

Coffeeandcocopops · 17/03/2021 12:27

Happy to sign petition.

Xanthangum · 17/03/2021 12:15

Private Eye's take

FPFW: ONS concede defeat!
Ninkanink · 17/03/2021 12:09

I am so angry! Let me be clear - I’m not frightened at all. They’ll never silence us all. My head might sometimes be bloody but it will remain unbowed, always. But I am absolutely furious that it has actually come to this.

Shame on all those who should have performed their due diligence in upholding the law (because we DO STILL HAVE rights and protections in law!) and who continue to act illegally.

TheFnozwhowasmirage · 17/03/2021 12:04

Fantastic news in a gloomy week. Shameful that women have to pay to fight for their rights and for government departments to do their jobs properly. I see that the impartial BBC is racing to announce this on their news website.....🙄

Ninkanink · 17/03/2021 12:00

🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻

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