What does CIS mean?

Calling transwomen men and calling women cis against their will are both banned on this board, so there's no need to strike a deal.

Do you feel an immediate sense of distress at your conclusion that you are female? Does it feel like the logical conclusion? Feel fine with it? No jarring sensation? No profound feeling even from the age of 3 or 4 that something is definitely wrong with you being categorised as female? No?

Where does that leave the growing number of transwoman who are absolutely fine with looking stereotypically masculine and experience no distress over having a penis?

Stella I have read women on here who do have a gender identity and it matches their sex

Is the only way to know you have a gender identity if you are dysphoric and it doesn't "match"? Do any people that aren't dysphoric have a gender identity?
Is it something that everyone has, or is it something only some people have? Thanks.

Haven’t rtft

But it’s meaningless when used wrt women

It’s unnecessary and also offensive to many

*Do you feel an immediate sense of distress at your conclusion that you are female? Oh yes! I often do feel a sense of distress. Job interviews, salary reviews, walking home alone. All cause an immdeiate sense of distress at my femaleness.

Does it feel like the logical conclusion? In a world/society that treat women as seconf class citizens; tramples over their wishes; bargains with their right to self define - as you did upthread? Yes. It's the onlv conclusion. My being female sets me at odds with who I feel I am and gender ideology only cements that ridiculous perception of what it is to be female, or male!

No profound feeling even from the age of 3 or 4 that something is definitely wrong with you being categorised as female? Absolutely! A profound disappointment at all the gender stereotypes the adults around me fed me and my friends. Shoving me into dresses, grwoingmy hair, washing my face, not letting me play if there was any rough and tumble, buting me a blood kids ironing board as fucking present!

That's the reason why I am gender critical in the first place. Fuck off using that against me and trying to persuade me that this is all it takes to explain being trans.

When men 'feel like women' they want that gender stereotype. Because they cannot feel like women. They quite simply do not have the biology for it! Women can't 'feel like a man' for exactly the same reason. Everybody is fighting the same bloody thing - masculine toxicity - but some pack it up nice and small and take it all with them!

If you all stopped looking at the gender boxes and yearning to be the acme of one of them maybe we could all just be who we actually are.

But that isn't the agenda is it?

So I just wasted my time posting... again!

I'm not ceding any language. My language will follow the exact contours of material reality or it will be bullshit.

Winederlust

Then don't call trans women menThen don't call people who don't believe in gendered identities cis.See how this works?I'm happy with a compromise - I won't refer to anyone here as cis, as long as no one here refers to trans women as male.8Do we have a deal?*
Nice switch there from men to male.!!!!!!!

First they appropriated " woman" now they want " female " as well!
Interestingly co chair from Green Party Woman's group has just been suspended for not being prepared to accept that male transwomen haebecome members of the female sex.
Sure they don't want to ERASE women ! Aye right! I won't call a transwomen a man but they are not members of my sex class. They are male.

Lucky you - your gender identity matches the sex you were assigned at birth - you can now just get on with your life with having to worry about transitioning in a transphobic society.

So by gender identity you mean sex identity? Nothing to do with gender?

Only speaking for myself obvs.

..but really I think trans woman covers it, if you could just back off with all the TWA literally W.

*trans female

cis female ?? Sorry too many toffee crisps

"I'm happy with a compromise - I won't refer to anyone here as cis, as long as no one here refers to trans women as male.

Do we have a deal?"

Deal.

How about not female? or cis female?

Do you feel an immediate sense of distress at your conclusion that you are female? Does it feel like the logical conclusion? Feel fine with it? No jarring sensation? No profound feeling even from the age of 3 or 4 that something is definitely wrong with you being categorised as female? No?

Then you can be fairly sure your gender identity is female

Lucky you - your gender identity matches the sex you were assigned at birth - you can now just get on with your life with having to worry about transitioning in a transphobic society

This makes no sense.

I mean aside from all the women who quite clearly state that they are uncomfortable in their sexed bodies but still recognise themselves to be female.

I thought that the current narrative was that you don't need to be dysphoric to be trans and that it's transphobic to suggest otherwise?

And if you don't need to be dysphoric to be trans then surely you don't need to be dysphoric to recognise that you don't have a gender identity.

It's all about interlinked configurations of electron clouds. Which reminds me of being told forever ago that chemistry is all about electrons.

Even with the mindbending science it's still easier to grasp than what cis means.

It’s a term that others women.

*while they can rotate, their positions relative to each other are fixed, so for example lactic acid where you have a central carbon and 4x sigma bonds from that carbon to 4 different functional groups means you can have molecular structures which are mirror images (enantiomers). The chemical properties are often the same but they rotate plane polarised light in opposite directions. The famous example of this is thalidomide, where one of the enantiomers worked to prevent morning sickness but the other caused birth defects.

There's no "conclusion that I am female"... just an immutable "isness" that's been me since conception. Nothing logical about it, no logical processes would shift it one way or the other. Of course I don't feel fine with it, existing as a female in a sexist, misogynist world. Every sinew of me jars against that fact, and I've felt that way since boys' rough, dangerous and sexualised behaviour in the primary school playground was brushed off.
One incident, age 9, boy in my class pretend thrusting against me. Reported to the teachers, but I felt such an internalised sense of shame over that... that was jarring against what my sense of self should have been. So, yes I do feel dysphoria between what I know myself to be and how the world treats me as a woman.

Do you feel an immediate sense of distress at your conclusion that you are female? Does it feel like the logical conclusion? Feel fine with it? No jarring sensation? No profound feeling even from the age of 3 or 4 that something is definitely wrong with you being categorised as female? No?

You actually just posted that to a feminist forum with a straight face.

I am dying with embarrassment on your behalf here.

Yes, I do feel a jarring and dysphoric feeling with my female body, I felt my boobs were too small, I felt disgust that my body's too hairy, I've been inconsolably distressed when I've seen GP's on the matter and been brushed off "don't worry, it doesn't mean you're turning into a man or anything". My belly curves out and I've been mistaken for being pregnant, when I was struggling to conceive and it never happened. Fertility doctor said I couldn't possibly have PCOS and refused to entertain the idea "because you don't look like that" - pointing at husband's beard.

So don't you dare say my body hasn't been an immense sense of dysphoria and distress. That's not fucking "lucky"

Not to mention all the times I've been leered at, followed by a guy walking sideways so he could fully fixatedly stare at me when I was just walking into town along the prom. Groped, touched up, fortunately nothing worse. I don't call having a female body "lucky" when I feel such an incongruence between wanting freedom from hassle and harassment when going out in the world and how I see myself

That is why "female" isn't my gender identity, it's my sex.

"Why then is gender reassignment surgery a minority interest for transwomen?"

It isn't. This is from a survey of 6,450 transgender and gender non-conforming people:

static1.squarespace.com/static/566c7f0c2399a3bdabb57553/t/566cbf2c57eb8de92a5392e6/1449967404768/ntds_full.pdf

"Sixty-two percent (62%) of respondents have had hormone therapy, with the likelihood increasing with age; an additional 23% hope to have it in the future. Transgender-identified respondents accessed hormonal therapy (76%) at much higher rates than their gender non-conforming peers, with transgender women more likely to have accessed hormone therapy (80%) than transgender men (69%). Almost all respondents who reported undertaking transition-related surgeries also reported receiving hormone therapy (93%)"

"Transgender women may elect to undertake a variety of surgeries, including breast augmentation, orchiectomy (removal of testes), vaginoplasty (creation of a vagina and/or removal of the penis), and facial feminization surgeries. We asked respondents to report on whether they had, or wanted, breast augmentation surgery, orchiectomies and vaginoplasties. As the charts below show, most transgender women reported wanting or having these surgeries. In addition, 17% reported having had facial surgery.10 However, it is impossible to know how many others would desire or utilize surgery if it was more financially accessible"