What does CIS mean?

What does 'trans' mean? That you prefer the gendering that attaches to the sex that is not the one you were considered/observed/assigned to be at birth.

So then 'cis' would mean 'I prefer and am ok with the gendering that attaches to the sex I was considered to be at birth' - which is just not true for very many people.

if dysphoria was about living in a misogynistic society, why would trans girls and women even exist?

There are many people who declare themselves to be trans but do not experience physical dysphoria

Frankly this question indicates a certain naïveté about the reasons why some individuals declare themselves to be trans

If you asked me if I was trans, I could just say 'no', couldn't I?

"Why are we TOLD we must be cis?"

It's just the word for people who are not trans. Suppose I ask you if you are trans and you reply "I'm not trans", well, "I'm cis" is exactly the same thing as "I'm not trans" but with fewer words in it.

Also, if dysphoria was about living in a misogynistic society, why would trans girls and women even exist?

Let me assume for a moment that you are a British person living in the UK. Most people people are OK with that - they feel relaxed about being British, they don't feel like their Britishness puts them in danger - it's fine.

But now imagine being that same British person but living in Nazi Germany at the height of WW2. Now being British has all kinds of problems attached to it, in this case, instead of being a woman in a misogynistic society, you are a British person in an enemy country where you will be killed if they find you.

Hibari: "It facilitates the claim that cis people are privileged over trans."

A massive sweeping generalisation. Really, all the time? I'd say that proposing that all women have a prefixed attached to their sex smacks of PRIVILEGE engendered (no pun intended) through socialisation.

True!

The quote works for all women of the time, as now!

The worker is the slave of capitalist society, the female worker is the slave of that slave. In an era when it was still the norm for men to work out of the home and women became housewives when married.

Many working class married women became housewives and still needed to work for money - as now.

I was coming to say what Errol said.

Ono/Lennon chose a blunt phrasing, aimed at shocking.

The original statement was much less in your face and made more sense of the thought behind it.

The worker is the slave of capitalist society, the female worker is the slave of that slave. In an era when it was still the norm for men to work out of the home and women became housewives when married.

"A trans man would feel gender dysphoria even in a world without misogyny, menstrual pain and all the other things you list."

You cannot possibly know this either way. There is no environment in which this could be tested. You just believe it to be true.

I hadn't heard the quote before Alice but yikes, I don't like it

Oh don't remind me .... that Police Veg and Fruit Hate Crime cartoon!

I'd forgotten that

I am ready for the banninging. I am too used to free speech on the internet and will not last here long, and that is a good thing because I realize the tightrope that mumsnet walks and I respect that and admire you crazy british mums for getting on with it. I can see Hermoine and Ginny (and Mrs. Weasly goddammit) cheering for you now. I am too old to be a huge Potter fan, but my children enjoyed the books, however, I do like JKR's female characters very much. They all have grit...Hell Eowyn and all of CS Lewis's adventurous and daring girls are looking down in approval...

But I will not leave without saying this. I'm an american and as such I am very sensitive to words that are used to denigrate and others in a systemic fashion. 'C*s' and 'TERF' in the manner they are being used by this movement are very similar to denegratory language that has been rightly banned in many mediums (many of those the same ones who feel no compunctions to tailor their speech to offend when the targets are female).

Seems that Yoko Ono was right and "Woman Is the N*gger of the World"- always assigned a place and title that is secondary and inherently demeaning and never of our own choosing.

A trans man would feel gender dysphoria even in a world without misogyny, menstrual pain and all the other things you list

You can’t possibly know that since that world has never existed. It’s possible that trans men would not exist at all in that world.

And one thing’s for certain, there’d be no place for trans ideology in a world without misogyny.

Sorry multiple posts, as catching up.

'transgender and gender non-conforming people'

Why are gender non conforming people being added in now?
It's a phrase that has been around for years, meaning those who don't confirm to the stereotypes for their sex in terms of interests, abilities, mode of dress, behaviour etc.
Has the meaning of GNC been changed? Very very interested to hear an answer to that.

[quote Xanthangum]Otherwise it's a bit like saying they have a fruit that doesn't match their vegetable

Oh don't remind me .... that Police Veg and Fruit Hate Crime cartoon!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8851393/Devon-Cornwall-Police-mocked-gender-neutral-tomato.html[/quote]
Oh my gosh... I genuinely had no idea that existed - it arose from me thinking about the "comparing apples and oranges" idiom!

'Do you feel an immediate sense of distress at your conclusion that you are female? Does it feel like the logical conclusion? Feel fine with it? No jarring sensation? No profound feeling even from the age of 3 or 4 that something is definitely wrong with you being categorised as female? No?'

Well, yes.

That's why I've been a feminist since before I knew the word.

Yes I get a jarring sense. Always have and will. When I'm going about being a PERSON and something happens to remind me that no, I'm a girl. I'm a woman.

God how much I hate that stuff. Always noticed it, always pissed me off.

Why are the experiences, the feelings of so many women and girls ignored in all this. Why are we TOLD we must be cis? Comfy and at home with it all. To thick to know our own minds and realise that yes we don't feel like we have an internal gender ID because we are totally comfy.

No. No no no. I am a feminist because I have always noticed, felt. Yes since very small. The discomfort and dislike of being treated as a girl/ woman. When I am a PERSON.

Of course women who feel this way will not be heard. The things we say will not be listened to. Even though so many of us absolutely understand the. Anger. Discomfort. Helplessness. At being treated as something we are not.

Why on earth this natural allyship was not leveraged is just beyond me. It's not down to women that it wasn't though.

And so yes. Don't tell me who I am. Don't 'assume my gender'. I am a grown up intelligent woman who has spent nearly 50 years with this massive discomfort inside.

I have spent my time talking and supporting and agitating etc for woman and girls (and men and boys) to be seen as PEOPLE first.

Somehow all this makes me a, well a host of weird stuff. A Russian bot, a right wing American Christian, someone who wants people to die (!), homophobic, racist, etc etc etc.

It doesn't really land as I know who I am. And more than that, I know I'm a person first. So please, if you are so keen on respecting how people feel. Then respect me and others like me. And listen to what we say, don't put us in these new boxes (same as the old boxes) and dismiss us. Each time you do, well everyone learns something don't they. Bottom line. Women and girls must be who others say they are. And if they disagree they are wrong, bad and don't know their own minds.

You forget this is the position we've been in for ? thousands of years and we've really had enough now.

Otherwise it's a bit like saying they have a fruit that doesn't match their vegetable

Oh don't remind me .... that Police Veg and Fruit Hate Crime cartoon!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8851393/Devon-Cornwall-Police-mocked-gender-neutral-tomato.html

*funding

I am trying to imagine how this would look if you tried it with race. Rachael Dalziel: “I am a black woman. The rest of you, you’re just cis blacks.” Then taking all the positions and finding meant for people from ethnic minorities.

Someone earlier said it is making us ‘the other’. I totally agree with this. We’re being expelled from our own category.

I find it's used as an insult from trans rights people if your opinion differs to theirs.
I am a woman. I am female. I was born female and have suffered far too much discrimination/misogyny/everyday sexism/unwanted sexual advances as a result of this.
I refuse to be called 'cis'
It's offensive.

It is offensive

Not everyone who is not cis gendered identifies as trans

They may have no gender , they may be in denial of their gender , they may just not want to identify with a community that seems to disregard the impact of biology on female lives