What does CIS mean?

The more I hear the justification for this the more I'm reminded of infidels and heathens as other PP have mentioned.

I honestly don't understand the ire. Personally I would never misgender someone intentionally, I would never do anything to cause someone intentional upset someone, but the door swings both ways. Define yourself as you wish but you don't get to define other people by your terms too.

Imagine for one ludicrous moment that scientists lost the ability to determine sex from, say, a blood sample.

What's that got to do with re-classifying women as cis-women?

@Shizuku, can I just check? Do you actually understand how babies are made?

That some academics signed it just makes me question what the hell is going on in their world that they thought it a good idea to publicly put their name to tosh like "there is no scientific way to tell the sex of a mammal."

Quite. The rot has set in deep in academia.

I mean, that's just me taking a moment to pick out a few. I'm sure they would be interested in being educated by you.

It's an anodyne political statement virtue signalling that sex is "complicated", by which they mean disorders of sex development can occur. I'm pretty sure they do actually know how babies are made, whatever anti Trump posturing they felt they should do.

Male

You’re not answering just deflecting.

Can you tell me what the chromosome make up is for a make or female- how do you write it?

You know that list includes hundreds of geneticists, right? Are you saying you're right and they're all wrong? Are you qualified to give that pronouncement?

It’s a bizarre statement. But yes I go with the all the other experts who understand sex can be tested for. As such even basic tests can tell you this - Harmony for example. Or if you’re doing IVF there is a test to let you know if XX or XY, ie male or female.

Shizuku do you think humans are either XX or XY?

(For vast majority, bar very few)

Craig C Mello, Ph.D.
Professor and Nobel laureate Medicine 2006 of Genetics,
HHMI and Umass Medical School

Andrew Fire, Ph.D.
2006 Nobel Laureate in Physiology/Medicine,
Stanford University

Eric Wieschaus, Ph.D.
1995 Nobel Laureate Medicine/Physiology in biology,
Princeton University

Richard J. Roberts, Ph.D.
1993 Nobel Laureate in Physiology or Medicine,
New England Biolabs

Carol W. Greider, Ph.D.
Department Chair & Nobel Laureate in Molecular Biology,
Johns Hopkins University

Evan M. Garofalo, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Anatomy and Biological Anthropology,
University of Arizona College of Medicine - Phoenix

I mean, that's just me taking a moment to pick out a few. I'm sure they would be interested in being educated by you.

Because science is complicated.

Some of science is complicated, but some really isn't.

there is no genetic test to determine a person's sex

This is so odd it’s bizarre. There is a test to determine an embryo’s sex even.

I should have said 'no we won't', actually.

• Most scientists will tell you that sex is complex and quite difficult to define

No they won't. Tosh.

Are you still going on about that letter? We explained at length on the other thread why it is arse.

Do you really think people will actually believe your assertion that ?

If a statement includes such a manifestly false assertion as there is no genetic test to determine a person's sex then why on earth do you think anybody would take the statement seriously?

That some academics signed it just makes me question what the hell is going on in their world that they thought it a good idea to publicly put their name to tosh like "there is no scientific way to tell the sex of a mammal."

Most scientists will tell you that sex is complex and quite difficult to define

Any scientist who wants to publicly admit that they don’t understand how babies are made probably needs a lie down in a darkened room

I mean, you do you - that's fine, but you narrow view, isn't representative of reality

My irony meter exploded

A perfectly valid approach. Most trans women would say the same.

They might, but I'm just guessing that would only hold until they found it necessary to let everyone know that they were "trans" and not boring biological females, and that they needed to be centred. This IMO is the male privilege of expectations - what we call male entitlement and in my experience it never really quite goes away. So I think it would all be clear.

Or in a tiny minority XXX etc

But statistically vast majority XX or XY, male or female

No it’s really not.

It’s either XY or XX

Can you expand on why it’s more complicated than that