What does CIS mean?

It has no defined referent at all. And that is how it differs from "straight". Thanks to all for clearing that up for me. The penny has dropped.

Then don't call trans women men

I can call Miranda Yardley a man who is a transwoman. She's fine with that.

If I told Blaire White she is a female she'd tell me I am wrong.

You don't get to choose how other people describe themselves.

Then don't call trans women men.

I will consider people according to my beliefs, as you do to yours. Politeness aside, I don't believe in gender identity ideology, so for me women are female. I won't be using the gender identity ideology term "cis" to self describe, as I don't believe in gender identity ideology like you do, so I don't accept its labels as they presuppose a belief I don't share. Do you see how this works?

Everyone knows what female and male are and everyone knows a woman is an adult female and a man is adult male. Otherwise, what on earth are trans people transitioning to?

Not RTFT but -

as a chemist, cis- & trans- are used to describe the positions of functional groups on isomeric molecules (nice pic hopefully attached of cis and trans butene-2)

What the Gender Identity movement have done, quite cleverly, is use this to change the original meaning of Trans.

Trans used to mean "trans" in the sense of changing from one thing to the other - transformation, transition - so transsexual was a change from the male to female sex or vice versa. Transvestite = someone dressing themselves in the clothes of the opposite sex, etc.

However, now "trans" has been subtly changed through Gender Theory to mean not a journey from A to B but "trans" in the sense of two things being misaligned (cf. the butene molecule) - so which two things are misaligned? Well, biological sex and gender identity. So what do we call people for whom those two things are aligned? Well, look at the butene molecule - cis.

It's a very clever, very subtle, example of language meaning being changed deliberately to assert an ideology. And there are disagreements about this within the trans community - as some still see themselves as transsexual, in the original sense.

That doesn't make sense. Is that a request or are you claiming that is a logical conclusion of your beliefs - compelling someone to do something?

In other words, "I am what I say I am. You are what I say you are."

Exactly that. I reject this label. I do not wish to define myself to "help trans people". I have nothing against trans people but I am also allowed autonomy and my own sense of identity. If your "reality" involves demanding that other people redefine themselves against their will, then I start to suspect what your motives really are.

I don't need you to agree with me. I don't need to agree with you either, it's fine to see things differently.

But if you want me to respect that some people need me to use words and language for them that I don't personally agree with, because using language and words that people choose and feel appropriate for their sense of self and well being matters -

then you need to extend those same values and that same respect to me too.

That's the social contract. End of.

It facilitates the claim that cis people are privileged over trans.

We are.

In what sense?

Cis- and trans- meaning this side of/ the other side of only works when speaker and listener are both in the same place; cis-alpine or trans-atlantic depend entirely as concepts on where you are in relation to the Alps, or the Atlantic.

Someone once tried to convince me that Cisatlantic was a phrase in common usage

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

And the continuous denial that people reject an ill-defined label because they actually don't fit the label becomes very apparent.

So, on one hand, we are told to believe people are who they believe they are. At the same time, we correspondingly stay in the box they have just made for us with the label they created on it even though we don't actually fit the box or the label. Because that term has only recently repurposed.

By those now in the box with the label staying put, it allows those who have redefined themselves to fit their own description of reality, that may or may not reflect material reality (I stress that many trans people do view themselves in a way that accepts the reality of their sex). And to ignore that the label and the box relies on a description of 'trans' that is ever growing and ever increasingly ambiguous.

It also ignores that many, many of the posters on these feminist boards would actually fit into that loose group of trans as it stands now.

This fact is ignored by so many posters who come with the aim of educating us.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

In other words, "I am what I say I am. You are what I say you are."
If you genuinely believe that people's internal beliefs about their own gender should be respected, then you need to stop insisting other people use labels they don't identify with.

By the way shizuku, please can you reply to my question from yesterday about 'gender matching sex', as I think it's highly relevant to defining 'cis'?
I'll repost it here.

You used the term "Having a gender identity that doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth."

Please could you set out clearly which gender identity matches with which sex?
Otherwise it's a bit like saying they have a fruit that doesn't match their vegetable - what are the paired sets of gender identity and sex?
Surely you're not saying a feminine gender identity matches a female sex and a masculine gender identity matches a male sex?

Or are you saying gender identity and sex are the same thing?

Males appropriating the word 'woman' is way beyond 'offensive'.
'Woman' isn't an identity or a feeling. There are trans people who know this, of course, they and their rights are also being negated by the anti-realist rhetoric.

Shizuku, can you talk me through the logic in that cartoon?
Why does thinking 'cis' is a slur necessarily require thinking that 'trans' is a slur?

I genuinely don't ever use trans as a slur. However, for the reasons outlined above, I believe cis is poorly defined and used as a slur.

So, unless you think I am lying, I have proved that your meme is false in at least one case. If you care about not using slurs, you should stop using false premises to argue against this.

And secondly, I see you have essentially called my trans friend a liar, as they have asserted that cis doesn't mean 'not trans' but 'having a gender that matches one's sex'. Can you provide more information as to why you are correct and my friend is wrong?

And there are plenty of examples of the term being used to denigrate. You don't even have to go to twitter for them.

So if Rachel Dolezal had called herself a transAfrican American it would have been OK?

Take it to its logical end point. Black people are then told that they have to refer to themselves as cis-Black and get browbeaten when they resist.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

That's your problem.

Essentially, it's just an objection to a word that helps trans people. It's transphobia - pure and simple.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

When a man says he's a trans woman, rather than a man, essentially, it's just an objection to a word that helps women. It's misogyny - pure and simple.

Objections to the word "man" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

If this post is deleted, but yours is allowed to stand, it will be very interesting. I'm prepared to go for it.

I see we've got the usual cultural appropriation itt

To be fair that was an example of being neither trans nor cis, as they don't perscribe (subscribe?) to this "Western culture".

They were generously acknowledging that they can opt out.

Well, guess what, we also opt out as we do not subscribe to this "Western culture" of "gender" you're trying to impose on us. Okay?

Or are you going to force us to accept your culture?

It is one of a binary option that women are given to choose from when defining themselves.

Under the NewThink system If a woman does not identify as "cis" she, by default, is identified as a "TERF".

This is rather like the scene in the film "I am Not a Witch" in which the terrified little girl falsely accused of witchcraft is given the option of not identifying as a witch, in which case she must confess to being a goat and will thus be at risk of being butchered.

@Helleofabore

That seems hypocritical to me, but I could be convinced that I am wrong.

Yes. Me too. What I think I would need to be convinced is some way of distinguishing between males, for example, who are playing the role of being women and males who actually are women. But I can't find a concept of gender which allows that. The concept is too indistinct to be firmly grasped. The closest it gets to it seems to be an implicit claim that "playing the role" and "actually being" are either same thing, or meaningless concepts in themselves. I can't accept that because the world is more material than that sort of idealism.

Oh, well, the anime meme has definitely convinced me. Trumps any other argument, obvs.

such as the Tahitian/Native Hawaiian māhū
I see we've got the usual cultural appropriation itt, decontextualizing other cultures societal roles and applying modern ideologies to systems of behaviour that developed as a result of unique pressures, and thereby dehumanizing and further marginalising people oppressed by related modern ideologies
Not very intersectional hmm?
Just yet more fetishizing and a lack of intellectual rigour