What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

Yeah this was the line that stuck out for me too. :( I took the screenshot as when I read it at first I couldn't believe it was a direct quote)

The fact is that adults have helped this child to be put on medication which will render them infertile. The child believes it will be fine to tell boys 'later' as they won't be able to tell.

It's awful that the child callously dismisses the younger girls feelings (thanks partly to the person asking questions saying "weren't there some stupid kids in your class?" i.e. Non believers) but also really sad to me that they've been sold this lie as a solution. :(

No child is winning here.

So no @Shizuku this video doesn't help.

It struck me when Joppe was in the pool and mentioned that they were constantly worried about their penis being visible and looking enviously at the girls bodies

I wish somebody could just tell them they will never be a biological girl but that’s okay ... otherwise it will be a life of constant disappointment even if everyone tries to #bekind

Both my children (16 and 14) are friends with large groups of girls and boys. I don't think I know any children of their age who hang out with just girls or just boys. My brothers and I were the same at their ages.

Gender stereotypes aren't just damaging for the children who are being transed either. DS2 has long hair. Almost waist length. He often gets called derogatory names and asked why he's in the boys toilets. When he says he's a boy he gets called transgender and/or trans based insults. Now of course mixed sex toilets would stop that, and he said he sometimes wishes they had them at school. Then he thought about it a bit and said that, although it would be better for him, it could be worse for the girls and therefore he knows they aren't possible.
Although interestingly DS1s school does have mixed sex toilets and AFAIK there are no issues with them.

Is that tweet real eresh ?

100%

These days girls tend to stop playing with dolls around 8 or 9. I can't imagine a bunch of high school girls choosing to play with Barbies unless they felt they had to 'be kind' to someone.

good point, only one of my DDs played with barbies and they were ditched long before the end of primary school.

I know a couple of boys who have girls as their entire friendship group - the boys are rather camp and they all have a lovely time together (although sleepovers will be a no-no).

It doesn't mean that the boys should really be girls - those two boys are the perfect illustration of a boy widening the bandwidth of what it means to be a boy (although how we regressed to such narrow sex stereotypes after the Olympic standard boundary pushing of the 1980s I don't know).

We still haven't established any idea of the frame of reference that doesn't involve stereotypes that a boy (or a three year old) would use to determine that he is really a girl.

I also think it is really sad that the child in this video is being encouraged into a situation where at a time when children are extremely conscious of their changing bodies anyway, adults are confirming that this child's body is wrong and needs to be changed fundamentally with powerful drugs.

It struck me when Joppe was in the pool and mentioned that they were constantly worried about their penis being visible and looking enviously at the girls bodies.

If Joppe wasn't trying to present as a girl and constantly worrying about not 'passing', I think a layer of stress would be removed from their life.

This suggestion that if a child plays with a certain toy it means they are actually 'trans' or in the 'wrong body' is so damaging. It's damaging to children and it will actually reinforce stereotyping and policing of gendered behaviour.

We have to let children play. Let them play with dolls, trucks, whatever they feel like playing with. Schools have largely been on board with this for years - the children have toys, they aren't separated out into 'girl' and 'boy' toys.

Likewise, girls and boys play happily together. Both sexes need and are entitled to privacy when changing and toileting. Very simply, girls are likely to start periods around 10, they will usually want to be apart from males in toilets from that age if not younger. They are entitled to privacy.

We could probably do more to challenge stereotpying wrt clothing - so long as it's functional and comfortable, why is clothing separated into 'girl' and 'boy' clothing? Or hair length, for that matter.

I can't believe we've gone backwards and have to actually spell this stuff out.

@Shizuku consider me educated. I personally think you’ve done the transgendered community a huge disservice with this, and your other, thread(s).

Phyllis [tea] you shouldn’t have any need to recount your hurt to justify what is yours by rights. That some people make it necessary, and then don’t even bother to listen, is abhorrent.

I haven't read the whole thread but have dipped in and out.

Since were sharing videos I thought I'd share this. A short piece on clinics in the States treating the children presenting with gender dysphoria and what that means for America's girls hitting puberty.

vimeo.com/524311446/4a0f725b0a?fbclid=IwAR33s3atMIhtvi0PAXJmbatdWeUIzvx5Lmz2JkIm3ZNOAL1uUj0TI6VbGeQ

You know how kids like to do what other people in their peer group are doing?
And you know how girls tend to play with Barbie dolls more than boys?
And you know how trans girls see other girls as their peer group?

I know this was a long way up thread but it is truly scary how these observations somehow translate to boys who play with 'girl' toys must be trans girls.

My 9 year old DD is one of the girliest peoples I've ever met, she has, however, NEVER played with a Barbie in her life! She loves to play Minecraft and Roblox, but she also loves ballet and wearing pretty dresses. She's just a girl who has a wide variety of interests. When I was a kid I wanted to be a unicorn, I mean I really, really thought I was a unicorn! My OH wanted to be a tree when he was 6. He said it was because all the kids played under it so would make him happy 🤣 It's safe to say that we changed our minds!

There's also a Facebook page for the film, but no pictures of the child since 2015. They were still presenting as female then. Well, they were wearing a skirt.

Thank you kitchen it would be good if they were living a life of happiness however that worked out for them.

Does anyone know what became of the child in the video?

We will all have to think a lot about this. I am sure that there will be some way to refer to the two groups .

Is that tweet real eresh ? that is incredible if so

In the meantime, for safe guarding purposes only, I think that penis people and non-penis people is an easy and straightforward way to divide children and teens.

agree... if only we could think of some names to collectively give these people rather than penis people and non-penis people.

Trans ally feminist extraordinaire Laurie Penny made a fool of herself with this!

I think we simply need to think in penis people and non penis people when it comes to children and teenagers.

I agree... if only we could think of some names to collectively give these people rather than penis people and non-penis people.

for Phyllis

This is just another example of where women feel pressured to reveal deep trauma to try to make people understand the risks in this society where some people feel their needs have priority.

That women feel they have to do this to highlight the disproportionality makes this even worse.

Because people refuse to listen and understand where conflict exists. Their need, or their friend’s/child’s/sibling’s need is always deemed more important in these cases.

I am sorry Phyllis. You have been heard, at least by us.

The film is in Dutch to be exact

I think that the cute trans girl (and all trans girls) should be allowed to search out girl groups, play with girls and wear dresses if they want. Whatever makes them happy and everyone should be very supportive of that.

Separately, penis people should for safe guarding purposes not be together with non-penis people in certain situations due to safe guarding. Penis people should change separately. If any penis person is uncomfortable to change with other penis people, they should be offered their own space for privacy.

This whole gender identity bing is becoming very complicated. I think we simply need to think in penis people and non penis people when it comes to children and teenagers.

This film is 10 years old and in German.

I mean that's a bit random.

The reason for this sort of thing is to essentially use children to justify a load of other stuff.

Look how cute and pretty this child is! Why would anyone be mean?

(But it's actually a justification for self ID and all that flows from it).

And in fact it's not mean to say that people can't change sex and the reason for sex specific stuff, data by sex etc does not vanish because a child in Germany 10 years ago was cute.

This thread has been a perfect example of where “can’t you just be nice?” ends up.

No to girls having boundaries.

No to girls having privacy.

No to girls saying no.

Which is nothing new, just dressed up different.

And it’s not even about the child- it’s about the adult repeatedly stating girls have no right to boundaries. No right to privacy. No right to say no to males.

It has been repeatedly said, very clearly.

We exclude males from female spaces, not because we think all males are awful, because:

1. most people prefer to change/use bathrooms with people of the same sex for privacy and dignity
2. statistically females are more at risk from males not females
3. males have a penis which means the can rape, and many females are "triggered" by this as many have been victims of assault This is basic safeguarding. @shizuku Which of these 3 circumstances changes when a male becomes a trans woman?

Many trans people disagree with what @Shizuku is saying. They don't get a look in. Their opinions are irrelevant.

• to be clear, that is the OP, who is repeatedly dismissing the feelings, experiences and expert knowledge of women, because they don't fit with the pat slogans that they are trotting out over and over, no matter how many times they are politely dismantled and clearly shown to be entirely fact-free.