Jordan Peterson

I don't know what my personal limits are, but everyone has a certain amount of pressure that they can tolerate before they become unwell. From looking at it he reached his. I don't think that he's ever claimed to know all the answers or do things perfectly

Absolutely this.

I googled the advice from his first book. Seems pretty evidenced based stuff. Would you have a therapist who was currently actively unwell with a depression and addiction? Probably no. But would you have a therapist who has developed an addiction and got through it? I would. Would I choose to have an obese personal fitness trainer? No. If someone was a personal trainer, went through personal circumstances and got obese, does that mean that the training that they taught before was useless? No. Would I have a personal trainer who had been obese and then got healthy again? Definitely yes.

I don't know what my personal limits are, but everyone has a certain amount of pressure that they can tolerate before they become unwell. From looking at it he reached his. I don't think that he's ever claimed to know all the answers or do things perfectly.

Anyway, what am I doing? Team Helen Lewis!

However, it is perhaps some evidence that his theories are not supporting good mental health.

Why?

@Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud

No one has disregarded his ideas based on having a vulnerability to mental illness.

However, it is perhaps some evidence that his theories are not supporting good mental health.

Indeed. Whatever his other drums, the free speech angle is clear and unambiguous.

..So if you are forced to use the term "trans-woman" rather than "trans-identified " it makes it harder to talk about safety in prisons or fairness in sports

Just watched the whole video- Jordan was a prophet (for eg.-my insertion- How it's hard now to even talk about female fear of male pattern violence):

"Words are tools" "the thing about free speech is.. it's freedom to engage in the process to formulate the problems in our society, to generate solutions and reach a consensus. It's actually a mechanism, not another value. You should put constraints on free speech with extreme caution because you interfere with the ability to think and communicate"

I began to admire him after watching how he handled a TRA invasion of his lecture on campus. It was a long time ago, and i may have misremembered, but he was very calm, simply asking his students to pay attention to the dynamics of the situation and consider the implications.

Just re-pasting this link again (posted by an earlier pp) having listened to it. The professor of trans studies states as their first statement that "there is no such thing as biological sex"!!!

I wonder if there was a furious back-pedal after that to say that "noone was denying biology"

To be honest I prefer him, who doesn't profess to speak for women, to the beardy woke bros pretending to be feminists lecturing women on how sex work is liberating etc etc

[quote Xoxoxoxoxoxox]I don't agree on all his religious views but was a really good advoccate of free speech in 2016 in Canada, when prefered pronouns and TRA took over the campuses there:

Here's a Guardian piece about him from around that time

That article was an absolute biased car crash, as was the Cathy Newman discussion. She was ill prepared, went in with a pre conceived idea of what she thought he was, built on sound bites that people posted up about JP, without the bigger picture, in order to discredit him and beat him from a feminist perspective. She should have spent more time researching him. I suspect she knows that herself now. I have sat through stacks of his lectures and debates, I get that it's not everyone's cup of teas, it's long, arduous, and sometimes not that interesting. But if you're not prepared to do that, then don't simply make a judgement on someone designed to discredit them, based on a series of clips / sound bites that are designed to make them to appear as In a certain way. Without actually knowing / understanding the bigger picture of the debate they are having. And yes, dinner with Viktor Orban to discuss the dangers of PC /woke culture. So what? It's not company he keeps is it. Again, another sound bite. If we want to learn and understand we must be prepared to have conversations with all sorts of people, even people we disagree with.

[quote Xoxoxoxoxoxox]I have read the diagnosis of schizophrenia has been refuted.

thepostmillennial.com/breaking-media-falsely-accuses-jordan-peterson-of-having-schizophrenia[/quote]
Interesting. Either way, I have met some wonderful people who have had psychosis, recovered, and made amazing contributions to improve the lives of others and so I don't like it being used as a way of slurring someone as a person.

I have read the diagnosis of schizophrenia has been refuted.

thepostmillennial.com/breaking-media-falsely-accuses-jordan-peterson-of-having-schizophrenia

He makes a lot of loudly voiced, strong assertions, and once in a while something he says rings true.

However, for a clinical psychologist, he seems to be a terrible listener!

A lot of "cultural marxism" talk and "owning the feminist SJW" stuff from what I remember.
Here's a Guardian piece about him from around that time,
www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

More recently, one of the things he did with his fame was have dinner with Viktor Orban. If you don't know that name, I suggest doing some quick research on European politics.
When someone seems like they may be shady, looking at the company they choose to keep is often rather telling.

[quote oohmamama]@Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud

Yes - there is evidence of his schizophrenia and BPD - from the recent interview I posted he reveals his diagnoses and his coma in a Russian hospital.[/quote]
Ah - I couldn't get past the pay wall. Again, I wouldn't disregard someone's ideas based on having a vulnerability to mental illness. Not saying I agree with him on everything (more on the side of Helen Lewis in the interview above, I don't think that he is a feminist ally)

@Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud

Yes - there is evidence of his schizophrenia and BPD - from the recent interview I posted he reveals his diagnoses and his coma in a Russian hospital.

Following populist grifters.

Come on, please. "After listening to this person, they go on to listen to different people"?

And that's what you're concerned about?

Come on, there must be more. You said:

If you read accounts of, or listen to the young men who proport to be his fans, or disciples a few years ago, it's rather concerning the direction they're headed.

Give me one of these accounts to read. Please. I want to believe the frothing critics of people like Peterson have something to justify their vitriol, but I can never find it. It's like mist.

I really don't want to believe that people can be so disingenuous, but my faith in humanity is constantly shaken :(

I don't think that he's a feminist ally, nor would he claim to be. His interview with Helen Lewis was really interesting to watch. I was routing for Helen, there's clearly a lot of disagreement, but also some areas of agreement.

An earlier pp spoke about him having schizophrenia and BPD. I don't think that there is any evidence of this, benzo addiction and depression following his wife's illness (kind of reminds me of the TV character "House"). But even if he had had psychosis- so what? I wouldn't disregard his ideas sinply because of this. Lots of people who I enjoy listening to the points of view of have had psychosis eg. Steven Fry had been hospitalised in the past.

Following populist grifters.

Like who?

The Helen Lewis article linked to is excellent and not hateful at all, just objective. I think he's good on men but poor on women and I do wonder if he doesn't meet that many women. Agree his daughter seems to love following mad diet crazes and he maybe doesn't have many calm objective female friends who he regards as equal so maybe believes all women are like those in his family.
His addiction was sad but the way he and his family dealt with it was very odd.
I like his personal responsibility ethos but do feel he and his family tried hard to say he wasn't just another benzo addict thus going against this principle.

I honestly thought he'd gone away after his 15 minutes of fame were up and his life (very understandably given what he had to go through with his wife and his addiction issues) went off the rails.

I thought the Cathy Newman interview was a wasted opportunity to be honest. I think there is a very interesting discussion to be had about his views and how they could intersect with feminism.

Unfortunately Cathy Newman tried to call him out on headlines and put words in his mouth that he never had said which didn’t make her come out that well (he clarified that he never said it, laughed at the presumption and referred to empirical research).

If she had been better prepared (I believe she is much better than she came across) she could have tweaked the questions and had a thought provoking discussion.

I think he makes a lot of good points tbh. Whether or not he's everyone's cup of tea, I'm very glad he's around to counteract some of the other nonsense. The Cathy Newman interview, and the way he called her out re being offended, was great.