Jordan Peterson

I think a transcendent ideology has to have a meta level, doesn't it? Something that holds things together? Traditionally you'd have a metaphysics, but once you get to the late 19th/early 20th century, the dominant idea was that there was no metaphysics. So people had to look for something else to hold together thier ideas about truth and justice and how we know what is right.

There has been an attempt to make all the SJ movements into one thing, and use that as the rational basis for politics, beliefs, society, in maybe the last five years. It's one reason I think you get people who think that anti-racism and feminism and whatever are all the same thing and could never conflict. But none of them are up to it - all rest on deeper ideas about the nature of justice and it becomes random or incoherent without that underlying structure.

interesting discussion about Feminism as transcendent. I've just listened to chapter 6 in JP's latest book, which talks about why ideologies are unsatisfactory, one of the reasons being that they are not transcendent.

Welcome student it's interesting to hear different voices.

@LibertyMole

I am not sure feminism is transcendent either....but there is something like it getting used as a poor substitute for transcendence experiences, iykwim.

I say that because of the ideological rigidity of it at the moment, and the use of it to search for higher purpose.

@EarthSight funnily enough the reason I first encountered MN was when I was studying English language A Level, and we used the site to analyse unique speech patterns! Guess I carried on coming back to it partly because sometimes ots hilarious on here, but more so because of the interesting state of the trans debate at my university. And also I'm not trying to talk down to people, I just think that given how innocuous the bloke really is, there's not much point pretending he's some hate guru. It's just a clinical psychologist giving out free lectures on the Internet, and saying stuff people may not agree with.

Yes, I agree Hamster.

Although I wouldn’t consider feminism transcendent.

So in that sense, anything can be a God.

That is why he is so ambiguous when asked whether he believes in God.

It is not a 'religion' that he believes in, but that we need a higher purpose beyond ourselves.

Some might say identity politics is an example of this e.g. feminism

Also if a poster who happens to be a man makes a good point what on earth is wrong with acknowledging that? Particularly when much of the thread is discussing what Jordan_Peterson, a man, has to say about men and masculinity. So yes, what a silly comment.

And the mud slinging that happens around him is because people are disturbed by it.

I agree that there's some truth in that.

It’s kind of weird that we have had this whole long thread discussing how he isn’t an anti-Semite, a misogynist etc because there is so much rumour mongering.

And as Earth says, he is very uncontroversial. But I think we have got to the point where an academic talking about what the purpose and meaning of our lives is, as if that is an important question, has become in itself an offensive act.

And the mud slinging that happens around him is because people are disturbed by it.

He’s not religious. He’s been very clear he’s not a Christian. There was a YouTube video of him and Bishop Barron meeting and discussing his beliefs.

He draws on all kinds of mythology - ancient Egyptian for example. His focus on Christianity and Judaism is more to do with his investment in the traditions of the West. That is where he is conservative. He’s not particularly conservative on economic issues.

@Student133 This is a rather unusual place for a youngish male to be. What drew you here?

I really don't agree with some of what Peterson believes to be true, but when I read up on him, I was surprised by how uncontroversial he was....as in 'meh'....is that it?? There are many conservative, traditional religious men out there from various cultures. We all can find out roughly what they believe in because they mostly follow scriptures, yet no one really finds this shocking,. We're supposed to value or respect religious freedom......yet people get really riled up over Jordan Peterson??? It's clear that he's a deeply spiritual or religious man, following Christianity mostly but not a church goer. Almost every video or lecture has many mentions of Biblical stories and he seems heavily invested in what he sees as the wisdom in Judeo-Christian mythology, and I think he may have an entire series of vidoes on this topic.

I think the reason why some behave as if they are utterly shocked is because he's a white Canadian working in an academic setting where it seems that people are supposed to follow a certain line of belief or thinking and if you don't then everyone loses the plot.

Addiction*

I knew of the class of medical drugs he was on before he suffered the consequences of taking them. Benzodiazepines are prescribed for insomnia and anxiety and I'd heard that coming off them could be hellish, even life threatening in some cases.

All i would say is that I know plenty of men who think he is some sort of alt right spawn of Satan, whereas I think middle aged Canadian physcology professor who is vaguely Conservative and happened to be at a certain place saying certain things at a certain time, is more accurate. Though he may not directly agree with a lot of sentiments on MN, especially when it comes to intersectionality etc, he has spent a very successful career in his clinical work going about this, so even if you don't agree with the outcome, I do think there is some value. I just think it's better to accurately describe a set of ideas rather than creating a monster which isn't actually there.

Why? It's the feminist board, and women are being criticised for expressing their views, and a man is being praised for setting us straight.

What a bizarre comment. Women here also hold the same views, but as soon as a male posts saying similar things he's accused of setting you straight? Seriously? There are no words...

Men are allowed to post and some make very interesting comments.

And I'm being called "silly" for pointing that out?

What a silly comment

Why? It's the feminist board, and women are being criticised for expressing their views, and a man is being praised for setting us straight.

God forbid! Luckily, there are a bunch of men here to set us straight.

I wouldn't assume that everyone that disagrees with you here is male.

they just want a foil for expressing their own views

God forbid! Luckily, there are a bunch of men here to set us straight.

I think this is a very good summation @Student133

I think the people moaning about him don’t care what he had actually said, they just want a foil for expressing their own views.

So I'm a young bloke in my 20s, and though I wouldn't say I'm a 'fan' of Jordan, I have watched a lot of his content online and so I think I have a pretty good view of him.

First off, though he is now quite a controversial political figure, the vast majority of his content on his channel was psychology lectures made before he gained prominence from the c16 affair, where he took a stand against the Canadian government trying to mandate speech. As such most of the stuff he talks about doesn't actually have anything to do with trans or women at all, instead it's lots of jungian critiques, which you can take or leave. A point to not is that on YouTube, 3rd parties take a clip and title it 'SJW OWNED' or something to that end to get clicks, and often has nothing to do with the actual content. As far as I'm aware, of the content Peterson himself puts out, he normally doesn't do this.

On the accusation of him being some sort of alt right hate figure, this is complete tosh, and if you think this I seriously doubt you either know what the alt right actually is, or whether you even read it. Peterson talks lots from the perspective of a clinical psychologist, with hours of content around depression and other mental health issues at length. I can personally say that he has done more in helping me overcome my mental illness than the NHS has, and I've little doubt that many people didn't kill themselves because of him, so for that I'm personally extremely grateful. Also some posters seem to have the rather odd view that a psychologist cannot be mentally ill, which is daft, as we wouldn't say the same about an oncologist developing cancer, maybe have a think why you have this opinion if it applies to you.

Politically he tends to follow a classic Liberal view, and of course talks about personal responsibility a lot, which is very useful especially if you lack.good role models. Though you may think that policy is also required via social works, I struggle to see how encouraging personal responsibility is bad for anybody, regardless of age. I think a lot of this came about due to his academic work around extreme political systems based around collectivist ideals. This means he dislikes both communism and fascism, which I certainly agree with! This is where I struggle when people claim he is an alt right figure- he specifically argues against white nationalists, so I can't honestly see what people are talking about!