Sisters Uncut

@Ifyou if we want this case to go to trial I think it's really important that we don't say things on here that could be construed as assuming guilt. I'm fairly sure MNHQ will amend your post if you ask them.

Gina from Sisters Uncut on Times Radio now being interviewed by John Pienaar.

From the SU feministo a pp posted:

The services funded must offer flexible, trauma-informed support from the early stages, through crisis and into recovery. They must be accessible to all survivors, who must be able to choose to access services run for and by their community.

who must be able to choose to access services run for and by their community.

And if that community (for say religious reasons,) insists on single sex services?
How does that circle get squared?

But saying Joy Gardner isn't (wasn't) a name in public consciousness shows a fair bit of historical ignorance

Indeed. In fact, I saw a tweet from someone yesterday talking about the vigil and saying that it was only now, when the police started using violence against white people, that we sat up and took notice. Which was so fucking infuriating. Because all my life I've seen the police use violence against white demonstrators - Orgreave being the prime example, but I also remember Blair Peach (a New Zealander killed by police), Alfie Meadows, who had brain damage after a police assault and so on and so on. The sheer, smug-faced ignorance of the person who said that.

Sorry, going off topic a bit.

I think that person making demands of the Reclaim These Nights organisers demonstrates whose voices are loudest when you prioritise gender over sex

While I agree with Datun that this board is the biggest feminist mobilisation there is... I think it's also worth remembering that the womens marches in 2017 saw approx. 100,000 women marching through London and many more marching in other cities across the country, and across the world.

SUs protests in recent days may have had lots of attendees... but nobody should be kidding themselves that these are anywhere near the biggest of the last 10 years.

That Monty Python crew knew a thing or two.

Who'd have thought that slogans we laughed at as rightly ridiculous 20 years ago would now be taken seriously, to the point that women are punched, sacked, and have to raise money to take public institutions to court to clarify legal women's rights in this country.

I had a wonderfully cathartic laugh at that skit. THank you @ListeningQuietly

twitter.com/SistersUncut/status/1371515373305131013

...Joy Gardner... For black women whose deaths to(sic) not register in public consciousness

Not disputing the general point that BAME deaths have less media capital.
But saying Joy Gardner isn't (wasn't) a name in public consciousness shows a fair bit of historical ignorance
Of all the names on the list, hers is one that people of a certain age would certainly be familiar with

At a time when we are asking the male sex to stand up and acknowledge the extent of MVAWG, it does transwomen no favours to pretend that they are not also part of the problem. Transwomen, non binary people born male, gender fluid people born male and men , all share the same patterns of criminal behaviour and all groups have to take this on board. Transwomen pretending that their community share female patterns of criminality to justify their inclusion in female spaces are not just lying but are potentially complicit in furthering future male violence on women. Any so called " feminist " group who also perpetuate this lie are beneath contempt.

It is REALLY useful for threads to go back over the old ground
and bring us up to date
as everybody learns something new especially me and links between sources pop out

But, for anybody who thinks these are new problems

JJ I think we are using a different measure of success to you. We would like to see more funding for abuse services. Some actual action taken by the justice system against men who abuse women (rather than jepodising trials by being in contempt of court). We would like to see support funded by migrant women who have no recourse to public funds and might be turned away from a refuge. We would like to see a greater awareness of coercive control amongst anyone in power especially the family court and an end to victim blaming. The number of people who turn out to a protest while heartening is not in itself an achievement unless you are an organisation that is all about protest.

It is not doing a huge service to transwomen to amplify the voices of those who are violent and abusive and to picket protests about rape. If people see transwomen committing violence against women it is not going to promote support for them as a community is it?

Apologies to those frustrated by those of us who are catching up. For myself, I am really grateful that there's one place on the internet where I can reliably find out this stuff. If it helps, I'm taking what I'm learning here and going out and fighting the good fight with it.

The person posting about Sisters Uncut on the Reclaim the Streets FB page has just made a huge personal attack 'outing' me as a GC feminist (the horror, the horror) and, usefully, quoting a lot of non-facts and bogus statistics that – thanks to other feminists like you all here – I've been able to refute with links to reputable sources. If you'd like to join in, or just see what the other side say (nothing you haven't read before, I'm sure, but for newbies), it's here:
www.facebook.com/groups/282187170119807/permalink/284116069926917/

On that topic, I do agree that going over old ground is tiring. And we have the same discussions over and over again. I've been thinking about what I could do, with the skills I have. What I've seen even in my brief time on Mumsnet is fantastic responses and brilliant summaries and great solutions. And there's great stuff on Twitter too (and I got suspended for the first time today and realised it's only a matter of time before I lose my account). My skill is in collating information and building usable websites.

So would it be useful to set up a website to store all these responses to FAQs and refutations of common tropes and also to collate good information sources? I'm already losing track of census data and crime figures and YouGov polls on self-ID.... I did think about a feminist wikli (because the domain feministwiki.org.uk was available) - but then I found that feministwiki.org is already up and running. So back to the first idea: a resource for getting up to speed, and for having discussions, basically. Might that be a useful resource?

(Obvs, copyright issues to be looked into but I'm just putting a toe in here.)

You know you're part of a feminist movement when you come under constant attack from aggrieved males.

Exactly. Who are women hating males supporting exactly? And who are they targeting?

Ah the SWP. As a student in the 80s they were still a load of argumentative idiots back then. They didnt seem to be for much but they certainly knew what they didn't like. Boy did they let everyone know...

There were several anti-austerity campaigns which named themselves uncut following the successful UKUncut protests against corporate tax dodgers

I do know that - I'm not stupid. But I'm always interested in the words people use - words have connotations.

And for those who are reminded of SWP shennangins - Yes! I remember at university my women-only feminist discussion group (back in the late 1970s so yes, just women) was regularly disrupted by a SWP member who would interject into any discussion, however irrelevant her comments were, that women would never be liberated until the proletariat were free.

Now I"m always up for a bit of Marx & Engels, but you know, even in 1978 we could see how women were treated in Russia, China, or Poland ...

A friend posted about the vigil on FB and a couple of us commented that the ACAB and SU crew should not have been there.
They replied with "I see no sign of SU"
with a picture of their banner

Sometimes I despair

This board is the largest feminist mobilisation there is.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

Over the past three years it's been so energising to see so many angry, determined feminists gathering together. The women's conference in February last year brought together nearly 1,000 women, and it was organised in the space of a few months. This board has played a huge part in that.

Moreover, if you mean women who are non gender conforming i.e transmen , just use transmen.

I really appreciate this thread. I only joined Mumsnet for this board just before the deadline for the GRA consultation so it is useful to have this kind of information. Sister uncut are clearly focused on people not women. They are delusional if they think they encouraged people to attend Clapham Common, women were always going to attend.

Please don't use "cxx" it is an insult to women. We are not a sub group of our own sex!

It has been fascinating learning about SU-a truly grotesque organisation who care more about the rights of male rapists, then women. I'm also concerned about ACAB (all cops are bastards) appearing at supposedly women centred demos atm. These are not our friends....

I think you are giving them slightly more credit than there deserve there! It was a vigil for a murdered female (you know one of those ones who have 'cis privilege') that Sisters Uncut joined in on.

I was talking about the demo last night.

How many women there knew that they were supporting a group who support male punching women in the face and allowing male rapists to serve sentence in female prisons?

I am absolutely not transphobic, nor do I condone Sarah's vigil becoming a protest. But what Sister's uncut had was an excellent opportunity to raise awareness for gendered crime and assault in a peaceful way, constructively telling all women how to stay safe and all men how to not murder/assault us. But they are completely radicalised and took anger that isn't theres to express to ruin a rememberance service for a victim.

What was planned to be a mass gathering of mourners to pay their respects to someone they related to in some way was ruined by ridiculous people claiming they know what's best. No man is going to listen to us and take on board what we're saying if they're all being labelled as racists by some ridiculous people claiming to be 'sisters'. If sisters uncut want me to be their sister I'm disowning myself. They've now put non-cis women in more danger than they were in before, and they and cis women are bearing the brunt of men's anger.