Gender bending. Documentary on the telly.

This was a passing fashion, boys wearing heavy make up and flamboyant outfits. As I said before I'm sure there were some trans people who used the fashion to be able to express themselves and that is wonderful but in general these were not cross dressers and I doubt the vast majority of them continued to dress in a feminine way once the fashion died out. From the perspective of someone who was a NR... it wasn't just a fashion, or even the music. It was an ethos of personal liberty. DH was Mod/Northern Soul and we have had this conversation a few times over the years. NR allowed, embraced LGB and T and didn't oust the Straights either. Many maintained some of the dress in their day jobs, I did. My best male friend did, still does (now mid 50s, straight but chooses to wear all sorts of clothing considered feminine') and we still have our transvestite friend too, also straight, married and fetishising at the weekend! Then the 90s came and Metrosexualised it all!

I cant accept a whole fashion movement being included under the trans umbrella. I think the idea shows a lack of understanding. I think you have that backwards... wouldn't the trans umbrella claim the whole NR scene if it happened these days. Back then nobody cared, or wore a label. Much like Marilyn, the singer. He was a he, a gay man... wore dresses, make up, took a female stage name based on school bullying. Today he is still a flamboyant, feminine gay man! But TAs have tried to Trans him, even Truscum'd him!

I will watch the documentary with interest and an open mind though. You never know, you are quite likely to catch a glimpse of the Modfather in there. He was something of a regular - honest

Transsexual, or Transgender Shizuku?

Bearing in mind the latter call (and treat) the former as Scum.

That's... just a blatant lie (not that I'm surprised). A significant portion of the transgender population includes those who fit the description of transsexual, but a number of them don't identify as such.

Truscum is a term for people who insist on medical demands that gender identity clinics themselves don't make (including a demand for gender dysphoria), often harassing trans people who don't meet their criteria (whatever their criteria of the day is - - sometimes it's some manner of clothing style that someone wears, other times it's 'not showing you're dysphoric enough' because you dared use a different word than they do for your own genitals, other times it's using they/them pronouns, other times it's not wanting to have some form of surgery).

As for The Blitz Club- I'm... more confused why you think it'll piss trans rights activists off than that I'm confused by the style itself. I mean I'd re-date it a lot if I wore it today, but... really? You think this'll draw any negative emotion out of us whatsoever?

but in general these were not cross dressers

So what is the definition of a cross dresser? If fashion can't be the motivation behind the need to cross dress, what is?

I don't mean to be dismissive of the New Romantics, it just wasn't something that I was interested in. I know it was huge at the time just not for me or most of my friends.

I doubt the New Romantics would have been interested in what we were wearing or listening to either.

This was a passing fashion, boys wearing heavy make up and flamboyant outfits. As I said before I'm sure there were some trans people who used the fashion to be able to express themselves and that is wonderful but in general these were not cross dressers and I doubt the vast majority of them continued to dress in a feminine way once the fashion died out.

I cant accept a whole fashion movement being included under the trans umbrella.
I think the idea shows a lack of understanding.

I will watch the documentary with interest and an open mind though.

“genderqueer’ (a broad term increasingly popular among young people who do not identify with traditional gender categories, and often associated with a political rejection or radical subversion of conventional gender categories) and as ‘gender fluid’ (fluctuating between genders). Some people cross-dress on an occasional basis”

nowayhozay, who are you excluding from this definition and why? Remember trans includes cross dressers and feelings of gender dysphoria are not necessarily relevant.

Are you dismissing New Romantics as chart topping groups popular with teenage girls? In which case, as you admit, you should perhaps question your snobbery and also watch the documentary.

Wouldn't surprise me!

And yes, it does feel like that.

We had a workable solution... and we chose to throw it away! Manbags, guyliner and Gordon Gecko have a lot to answer for.

I have no idea how we got from a youth culture that accepted people at face value to this strict enforcement of sex stereotypes.

Thatcher's 80s have ended up seeming further away from the 1950s than where we are now. Is she having the last laugh or something?!

I was never a part of the scene so I admit I'm looking at it as an outsider

I was part of the Mod revival, I'm afraid we were very snobbish about music and fashion, also at the time I had no interest in gender issues. Perhaps the whole New Romantic thing just passed me by.

Yes, we know all of that, really. Those if us who were gender benders, gay, straight or trans ('tranny' in the language of the day). We know, we'd even say we were very good at accepting people as they presented themselves. No judgement, just acceptance.

Yet we all knew it was gender based. For some a desire to thrill, some a fashion, some a fetish, others a desire to throw over sex based stereotypes. Yes, even way back in the 80s we had those ideas.

I have no idea how we got from a youth culture that accepted people at face value to this strict enforcement of sex stereotypes.

www.stonewall.org.uk/what-does-trans-mean

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/equal-treatment-bench-book-february-v6-2018.pdf

“2. Transgender is a broad, umbrella term used to describe a wide variety of people who cross the conventional boundaries of gender.

1. The term ‘transgender’ is commonly used in a narrow sense to describe those people whose gender identity does not correspond to the gender assigned to them at birth, and who identify with the opposite gender. Such transgender people may have a strong and persistent desire to permanently reassign their gender and to live in accordance with their gender identity. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 (‘GRA’) and Equality Act 2010 refer to this narrower group of transgender people as ‘transsexual’ people.
2. The gender landscape is rapidly changing, as is the terminology in the

Well they would all be covered by the new Hate Crime Scotland Bill. Shout abuse at a New Romantic Man and you'll get lifted by the Police. Shout abuse at a woman....nothing.!

The young TRAs will have their eyes opened to who the older (to them) LGB/GC people are.

If the reaction to JKR is anything to go by, I doubt if they'll watch it if they're told not to.

Thanks. I already follow James Dreyfus but I will look at the other one

Could you share a link to clarify that please.

I find it hard to believe that New Romantics as a fashion movement come under the trans umbrella.

Considering how much some people hate the whole trans situation it might be helpful to not refer to people has genderbenders and femboys just because they don't wear stereotypically male clothes.

My son likes to wear a dress now and then. He knows he's a boy, he just likes the look and feel of wearing a dress. He's comfortable in his gender because we've brought him up to know being male doesn't mean he has to fit into a box.

Call him a femboy or a genderbender and he might start to think he's a girl.

And it's still around now - there's no shortage of femboys and young men who wear feminine clothes.

1980s culture challenged the idea that some clothes are masculine and some feminine. Perhaps you could learn something from the programme.

Do you know what the program is called OP? The Blitz Kids looked amazing, I was a bit too young and wrong part of the country, but I’m still fascinated by them.