Gender bending. Documentary on the telly.

This is the feminist board. I am talking about women’s rights.

Please explain if you can.

Gender isn't 'I'm masculine therefore I'm a boy' or 'I'm feminine therefore I'm a girl', which is the conclusion you seem to jump to, rather than 'I'm a woman/man/non-binary because this is the word and group I feel addresses who I am whereas the others don't'. Maybe start with that!

And no, I am not being sarcastic, taking the piss or anything negative.

That really is a discussion we could do with having. But only if the voices of both 'sides' are heard.

I would engage. I may not agree, but I would engage and aim to be polite about it, no assumptions.

Then you'd think you'd realize how full of shit the statement that trans people are reinforcing gender norms is, given trans people are as conforming and non-conforming as cis people. Yes!

That's a long, long discussion that needs to be had. PLEASE start a thread on it!

(By the way this sounds just like being a punk or a mod, but more conservative)

You are conflating ‘trans’ and ‘gender identity ideology’. Gender identity ideology is the belief that ‘feminine’ and ‘masculine’ identities exist and they are related to sex.

You are conflating 'gender identity ideology' with anything other than a transphobic dogwhistle.

^Then you'd think you'd realize how full of shit the statement that trans people are reinforcing gender norms is, given trans people are as conforming and non-conforming as cis people.*

You are conflating ‘trans’ and ‘gender identity ideology’. Gender identity ideology is the belief that ‘feminine’ and ‘masculine’ identities exist and they are related to sex.

Some trans people believe in gender identity ideology, some don’t. If you would like to explain how the concept of gender identity isn’t conservative, please go ahead.

Gender isn't 'I'm masculine therefore I'm a boy' or 'I'm feminine therefore I'm a girl', which is the conclusion you seem to jump to, rather than 'I'm a woman/man/non-binary because this is the word and group I feel addresses who I am whereas the others don't'.

Meanwhile.... the programme is on Sky Arts, which is on Freeview channel 9, 9pm tonight.

No. Provide a definition that explains your unreasoned opinion or you negate your point.

... Have you tried having a conversation with gender nonconforming trans people, ever?

Some trans people believe in gender identity ideology, some don’t. If you would like to explain how the concept of gender identity isn’t conservative, please go ahead.

I accept that in practice to an extent the boys were crossdressing in as far as the fashion was very feminine but if they were actually true crossdressers/ trans then why would the movement have died out ?
Wouldn't it have grown and developed?

Gender fluidity is perfectly acceptable under current definitions of trans. Gender conformity is also acceptable.

Haven't you noticed? Some of us live with, work with just such individuals.

Take away the notion of trans and I AM one of those people!

Then you'd think you'd realize how full of shit the statement that trans people are reinforcing gender norms is, given trans people are as conforming and non-conforming as cis people.

Have you tried having a conversation with gender nonconforming trans people, ever? Haven't you noticed? Some of us live with, work with just such individuals.

Take away the notion of trans and I AM one of those people!

I wouldn’t expect it to draw negative emotion, but it does represent people challenging rather than enforcing gender norms which is what the very conservative concept of gender identity does.

... Have you tried having a conversation with gender nonconforming trans people, ever?

Not sure that I can easily define that.

I accept that in practice to an extent the boys were crossdressing in as far as the fashion was very feminine but if they were actually true crossdressers/ trans then why would the movement have died out ?
Wouldn't it have grown and developed?

I define a crossdresser as someone who is compelled to wear clothes traditionally associated with the opposite sex.
This could range from a simple fetish right through to someone who needs to dress completely to feel at peace with themselves.

In my experience they don't chose to crossdress its just a part of who they are.

My own DS has been crossdressing since he was very young, it certainly wasn't / isn't a fashion choice for him.

Yes merrymouse! My own small group was quite political, non party politics.

It's embarrassing to think of some of the things we did... but we did mean it ma'am (on one probably quite well forgotten day at the Grafton Centre). Actually I have just Googled it.. and there is nothing about it at all!

You think this'll draw any negative emotion out of us whatsoever?

I wouldn’t expect it to draw negative emotion, but it does represent people challenging rather than enforcing gender norms which is what the very conservative concept of gender identity does.

Agree curious samphire. Punk and NR were not just fashion. They were about self expression, identity and often politics. I would guess that the same is true of other cultural movements.

I didn't use any T word towards you!

So some transwomen don't consider others to be proper transwomen? So are they against the reforms to the Gender Recognition Act ? Do they consider these " other" transwomen to be merely cross dressers ?

Don't use the t-slur in a response to me, thanks.

[quote PurpleHoodie]www.sky.com/watch/title/programme/186a44fc-09a1-4c13-b040-ff8c318286e1/blitzed-the-80s-blitz-kids-story-186a44fc-09a1-4c13-b040-ff8c318286e1/episodes/season-0/episode-1[/quote]
Thank you

I cant accept a whole fashion movement being included under the trans umbrella.
I think the idea shows a lack of understanding.

I’m not saying they should be, just that under current definitions they are.

Truscum is a term for people who insist on medical demands that gender identity clinics themselves don't make (including a demand for gender dysphoria), often harassing trans people who don't meet their criteria But the real lived experience of my transvestite mate is that he has been called Truscum, for being a 'weekender' and laughing at the idea he might be trans. I've been with him when that has happened!