Gender bending. Documentary on the telly.

And if you want to know when language is important, look at the recent reluctance of some MPs to accept that maternity rights are related to sex.

Yes! As he and Marilyn said on a rado/magazine interview a couple of years ago. They are men, gay men, feminine gay men in appearance. They ain't trans, don't want to be transed. And they took quite a bit of stick for it, both branded Truscum, iirr.

If it at all happened then the people who used the word truscum were just flinging in any word of a group they didn't like as truscum by default indicates someone who is trans.

No one's trying to get feminine gay men 'transed', but you won't actually accept that statement no matter how many times it's repeated because the default assumption is that trans women or girls are either feminine gay men with internalized homophobia or predatory straight men trying to 'colonise' women's spaces.

Well they’re not women and they shouldn’t be using their privilege to be trying to colonise our single sex spaces, as you rightly pointed out.

a woman who wears masculine clothes, plays rugby and downs pints in the weekends is entirely a woman, regardless of whether she's cis or not.

Yes you’re right, even if they identify as a trans man, they are still a woman.

How is that relevant to men wanting to colonise women’s spaces because they’re having a Shania Twain moment? Please educate me.

For one, no one's trying to colonise women's spaces, for two, trans women aren't men, three, your echo chamber makes the same argument roll out over and over, at least pick a different song.

Ach, sorry got it now, it’s about the use of power to subjugate. Quite a good analogy now I think about it.

Brits talking about colonizing anything really is the epitome of irony.

How is that relevant to men wanting to colonise women’s spaces because they’re having a Shania Twain moment? Please educate me.

Is there a legitimate argument that someone who is male but feels female can not conform to the stereotypes of femininity and so express himself/herself by wearing masculine clothes, playing rugby and downing pints at the weekend?

Going to completely ignore the lingo you use and say that yes, a woman who wears masculine clothes, plays rugby and downs pints in the weekends is entirely a woman, regardless of whether she's cis or not.

My rights are completely and absolutely dependent on my ability to fight sex discrimination. I can tell you that when the primarily male government forgot to think about childcare it was because they assumed women would just quietly sort things out without complaining (gender expectation). I need sex based rights. I need words that have clear meanings. Gender can sod off.

This thread just shows what a load of bollocks gender is. There is biological sex, and then there's clothes, they're two completely different things.

'This thread just shows what a load of bollocks ice cream is. There is fruit, and then there's bicycles, they're two completely different things.'

Really not making sense there.

This thread just shows what a load of bollocks gender is. There is biological sex, and then there's clothes, they're two completely different things.

Is there a legitimate argument that someone who is male but feels female can not conform to the stereotypes of femininity and so express himself/herself by wearing masculine clothes, playing rugby and downing pints at the weekend? Oooh! I'd like to know that too!

Then again I do. Knock your socks off, be who you really are.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened to Boy George if he'd been young today. I fear that if he'd been prancing around wearing some net curtains and growing his hair he might have been taken to the doctor and put on the trans conveyor belt and given puberty blockers etc.

Is there a legitimate argument that someone who is male but feels female can not conform to the stereotypes of femininity and so express himself/herself by wearing masculine clothes, playing rugby and downing pints at the weekend?

That sounds sarcastic but honestly, is that a legitimate position to hold?

Good news, women's rights aren't being negated, they're being expanded on to try and include all women. All women? Tall, short, black, white, Brit even?

Or are you suggesting that transwomen are women because human beings can change sex. Again, that won't fly here.

Tranwomen are transwomen and should be celebrated for that.

Good news, women's rights aren't being negated, they're being expanded on to try and include all women.

You cannot protect the rights of people you can’t define. You cannot protect the rights of people if you can’t explain what they have in common.

Brits talking about colonizing anything really is the epitome of irony. How dare you assume my ethnicity?

But you do reveal yourself a little!

How is something that doesn't exist that's solely used to point to, quote, 'gender woo weirdo's and straight people with blue hair who are trying to be special', capable of reducing your access to anything? Wrong place to ask that question. FWR is full to the brim of concrete examples.

Start with Sam Smith and his request of The Brits...

Then maybe Torrey Peters, another ongoing issue

Then maybe USA High School sprinting for girls

And the ongoing saga of Pips Bunce, maybe.

Call me when conservatives ignore all gender stereotypes and demands to do what they want across the whole spectrum of gender and sex with the only limitation being safety concerns and money.

Except gender identity means conforming to gender stereotypes, or defining your identity against the belief that everyone else conforms to gender stereotypes. The concept of feminine identity relies on a stereotypical identity shared by women.

A man wearing a dress is only gender non conforming if he agrees that he is male.

Nope! I won't settle for that. That's imsulting. Why should I accept colonisation of my sex because 'people do what they do"?

Brits talking about colonizing anything really is the epitome of irony.

I can easily accept any deviation from the social norms of sex based stereotypes, as I said, I have long lived that way myself. But I cannot acquiesce in the negating of women's rights.

Good news, women's rights aren't being negated, they're being expanded on to try and include all women.

Unless you're expecting me to churn out a Masters' degree in psychology on the spot, I'm afraid you'll have to settle for the answer of 'people do what they do'. Nope! I won't settle for that. That's imsulting. Why should I accept colonisation of my sex because 'people do what they do"?

I can easily accept any deviation from the social norms of sex based stereotypes, as I said, I have long lived that way myself. But I cannot acquiesce in the negating of women's rights.

No, I am trying to understand why anyone would promote ideas that in my life time in the U.K. would have reduced my access to education and work, and still would in many parts of the world. Calling that a ‘transphobic dog whistle’ without explanation is just shutting down communication.

How is something that doesn't exist that's solely used to point to, quote, 'gender woo weirdo's and straight people with blue hair who are trying to be special', capable of reducing your access to anything?

And why does that group address who you are?

Unless you're expecting me to churn out a Masters' degree in psychology on the spot, I'm afraid you'll have to settle for the answer of 'people do what they do'.

(By the way this sounds just like being a punk or a mod, but more conservative)

Call me when conservatives ignore all gender stereotypes and demands to do what they want across the whole spectrum of gender and sex with the only limitation being safety concerns and money.

You are conflating 'gender identity ideology' with anything other than a transphobic dogwhistle. But none of that!