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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender bending. Documentary on the telly.

111 replies

PurpleHoodie · 12/03/2021 11:32

This Morning is promoting a programme about The Blitz Club.

When gender bending was all the rage and very 'Pop'.

When people understood female and Male AND gender bending.

The TRAs are going to hate it. Or not understand it. The young TRAs will have their eyes opened to who the older (to them) LGB/GC people are.

Get ready for the narc' rage.

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OldCrone · 13/03/2021 21:19

What I described is gender.

You said:
Gender isn't 'I'm masculine therefore I'm a boy' or 'I'm feminine therefore I'm a girl', which is the conclusion you seem to jump to, rather than 'I'm a woman/man/non-binary because this is the word and group I feel addresses who I am whereas the others don't'.

Where is the description of gender in this statement? You've only said what it isn't, not what it is.

bitheby · 13/03/2021 21:11

It's on Sky Arts right now.

RedDogsBeg · 13/03/2021 20:17

What I described is gender.

You haven't given a coherent description of anything let alone gender.

merrymouse · 13/03/2021 20:16

It really doesn't, especially if you consider that cis is used to differentiate between women who are trans and women who are cis.

You should also be aware that women suffer sex discrimination regardless of gender identity and before they are even born.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 20:15

And I won't even report you for using it, even when you continue to do so having been asked to cease.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 20:14

Please don't use the C slur in a response to women here.

merrymouse · 13/03/2021 20:12

It really doesn't, especially if you consider that cis is used to differentiate between women who are trans and women who are cis.

'Cis' is very, very offensive because it implies identification with gender. As previously pointed out, women have been and still are denied basic rights - the right to education, the right to work, the right to participate in government because of gender.

Of course the solution to your own problem is one you insist is 'an insult', because that'd point out the arguments aren't relevant.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean here.

What I described is gender.

What is gender if not enforced cultural and social expectations? How are those not stereotypes?

Evarish · 13/03/2021 20:06

Again, quite possible to be trans without insisting that sex classes don’t exist. The slogan ‘Trans women are women’ removes language necessary to talk about sex.

It really doesn't, especially if you consider that cis is used to differentiate between women who are trans and women who are cis.

Of course the solution to your own problem is one you insist is 'an insult', because that'd point out the arguments aren't relevant.

If a gender identity is nothing to do with gender or sex, why is it called a 'gender identity'? Why not just an 'identity' or a personality?

What I described is gender.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 13/03/2021 16:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 13/03/2021 16:16

@Evarish

Is there a legitimate argument that someone who is male but feels female can not conform to the stereotypes of femininity and so express himself/herself by wearing masculine clothes, playing rugby and downing pints at the weekend?

Going to completely ignore the lingo you use and say that yes, a woman who wears masculine clothes, plays rugby and downs pints in the weekends is entirely a woman, regardless of whether she's cis or not.

Is there a way the objective onlooker would be able to tell the difference between the man who feels like a woman (to use your lingo, a woman) who is non-conforming to the extent they dress in masculine clothes, play rugby etc etc; and a man who does the same?
OldCrone · 13/03/2021 15:30

@Evarish

Some trans people believe in gender identity ideology, some don’t. If you would like to explain how the concept of gender identity isn’t conservative, please go ahead.

Gender isn't 'I'm masculine therefore I'm a boy' or 'I'm feminine therefore I'm a girl', which is the conclusion you seem to jump to, rather than 'I'm a woman/man/non-binary because this is the word and group I feel addresses who I am whereas the others don't'.

If a gender identity is nothing to do with gender or sex, why is it called a 'gender identity'? Why not just an 'identity' or a personality?
merrymouse · 13/03/2021 15:12

Again, quite possible to be trans without insisting that sex classes don’t exist. The slogan ‘Trans women are women’ removes language necessary to talk about sex.

merrymouse · 13/03/2021 15:10

Gender identity ideology - justification for enforcement of gender and removal of language necessary to talk about sex.

334bu · 13/03/2021 15:10

Gender isn't 'I'm masculine therefore I'm a boy' or 'I'm feminine therefore I'm a girl', which is the conclusion you seem to jump to, rather than 'I'm a woman/man/non-binary because this is the word and group I feel addresses who I am whereas the others don't'.

So when Rachel Dolezal says that African-American is the word and group that addresses who she is, that makes her a person of colour? Surely that cannot be right?

merrymouse · 13/03/2021 15:08

Sex - the reason why a world organised around the default male doesn’t suit me.

Gender - the social expectations that oppress me.

334bu · 13/03/2021 15:04

There is fruit, and then there's bicycles, they're two completely different things.'

There is the human male and then there is the human female, they're two completely different things.

merrymouse · 13/03/2021 15:03

@Kendodd

Look at the past year. See how women have been adversely affected by the pandemic. Actually, I would argue that its men that have been adversely affected simply because they are more likely to die from covid. I've heard this is because our disease fighting is connected to the x chromosome, the fact that females have two x chromosomes has helped them cope with covid. I would be very surprised if trans woman didn't have the same death rate from covid as men.
Also true - health is another reason why sex is so obviously more important than gender. However there are now reports that women are more affected by long Covid.
OppsUpsSide · 13/03/2021 15:01

I would be very surprised if trans woman didn't have the same death rate from covid as men.

You might be right, unfortunately I don’t think Transwomens chromosomes have been taking their re-education very seriously, they seem to have stuck with sex and science rather than gender and ideology Sad

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 15:01

Yes, it's both.

One sex due to biology, the other due to social norms!

Deviating from social norms can't save you from increased Covid RR, you can't identify out of that!

Kendodd · 13/03/2021 14:57

Look at the past year. See how women have been adversely affected by the pandemic.
Actually, I would argue that its men that have been adversely affected simply because they are more likely to die from covid. I've heard this is because our disease fighting is connected to the x chromosome, the fact that females have two x chromosomes has helped them cope with covid. I would be very surprised if trans woman didn't have the same death rate from covid as men.

OppsUpsSide · 13/03/2021 14:57

Yes Evarish, me too.
Repeating it until you're blue in the face doesn't make it true.
I’m glad you can see that, but then you went on to repeat yourself anyway?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 14:56

So much control over language... so much insistence on only1 reality!

Why?

Transwomen are male, men.

I wasn't lying about the slurs thrown at Boy George and Marylin, at the same time as some well known transwomen who say they are trasnwomen, not women! Here, magazines, newspapers, interviews etc.

No one's trying to get feminine gay men 'transed', Really? OK!

Evarish · 13/03/2021 14:49

And yes, TRA actions are about colonisation of all things female, all things woman!

Repeating it until you're blue in the face doesn't make it true. Trans rights activists are not colonising anything.

Evarish · 13/03/2021 14:48

Yes you’re right, even if they identify as a trans man, they are still a woman.

I was talking about women, not men.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 14:47

For one, no one's trying to colonise women's spaces, But you are trying to enforce language, aren't you?

And yes, TRA actions are about colonisation of all things female, all things woman!