Met Police threaten to prosecute organisers of 'Reclaim These Streets' womens' gathering

Sadly we police by consent in the UK

We don't though, of course.

ErrolTheDragon
Maybe an organised event isn't the best idea at the moment, but would there be any problem if a lot of women simply decide they want to take a walk on Saturday evening? Not only in Clapham - anywhere and everywhere

I wondered about this because anyone who lives near Clapham Common knows it's busy every day. & the police take no notice at all of that.

Those are good points thunkit.

Sadly we police by consent in the UK, and it will take a very long time to regain public confidence.

Years of govt underfunding have caused this.

Also I think that because they are so overstretched they are working reactively, always on the back foot, so it is hard for them to think about and understand what is going on.

These astroturfing networks include criminal networks of very clever people.

It is one thing for the police to deal with people who stab and shoot each other or who commit acquisitive crime (online fraud excluded).

Unfortunately the new breed of organised criminals are involved in fraud and long cons. They are extremely well resourced with friends in very high places. Dealing with them and understanding them is nothing like understanding people who rob and burgle.

Also due to issues of privacy the police are somewhat restricted in what they can do. They have a mandate that they cannot overstep.

The bad guys have a significant advantage.

On the bright side those of us with obsessive interests in crime and with protecting the vulnerable are free to research these groups and make a difference in a way that the police are not.

It does seem so doesn't it. Are they not achingly aware of how these groups operate? Wouldn't they have had intell that there would be all sorts turning up?

They are not magic though. I have a friend who worked alongside the police regarding antisocial behaviour in London fairly recently.

He was shocked by how badly resourced they were, they really have been stripped down to the bone to the extent that they just could not provide anywhere near the same service that they could 5 years previously.

Another major problem is that mental health services have also been stripped to the bone.

Precious public money has been squandered on dodgy mindfulness and yoga charities, wellness consultants, image consultants, PR companies, leadership and corprorate training coaches, transformational change coaches and Independent NHS Providers.

As a result the police are left dealing with extremely mentally unwell and otherwise vulnerable people who really should be the responsibility of social services and mental health services.

Then covid hit and things got even worse.

I think the police are between a rock and a hard place. Whatever they do people will criticise them, but it has to be one of the most difficult, challenging and thankless jobs right now, working as a cop in a pandemic.

Apology - This is somewhat off thread, but the Government survey on violence against women has been reopened if anyone missed the opportunity to complete it, and would like to now. Closes on 26th March

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/violence-against-women-and-girls-vawg-call-for-evidence

They made a decision to turn the event into one of public disorder. Why?

Because the event had been hijacked
Because people were still arriving
Because it had be done so crowded that people were packed in closely and large areas were becoming impassable
Because singing/shouting is a Covid risk
Because initial requests to start dispersing were ignored

There was no overt policing for nearly all of yesterday and there has been none today, even though there is a constant stream

And I would dispute there was any kettling as the northern side of the protest (for that is what it was by that stage) open

The Met have been played and were played because they have massive blindspots and areas of stupidity and some of these were exploited. The media are currently being played, being handed a simple narrative that is digestible to the audience. What a terrible mess.

Most of all though, what happened to Sarah Everard and what could be done in response is being completely drowned out and will be for some time. Will the arc in the media be: worrying news-worst outcome-soul searching-row-punch up on the Common-what's the next story?

Oh FFS. How do you get a refund from JG, is it possible?

The most concerning issue for me, had I made a donation, would be about the harvesting of personal information by a secretive organisation.

Request a refund and you risk having further data about your GC status harvested.

It is very upsetting to me that the event was astrotufed. It seems very disrespectful to Sarah and her family and loved ones.

I'm running late but have some material to share later re this network

Hoodathunkit got it in one I think.

Well done.

Honestly I think a trap was laid last night and the Met fell into it hook line and sinker, that is not saying every officer is innocent obviously, there are clear instances on camera of inappropriate use of force and I sincerely hope every one is analysed and participating officers dealt with appropriately. But look, this morning the headlines are not talking about Sarah, or about wider peaceful vigils up and down the country and on doorsteps and online. They are already glossing over the points being raised about how society treats women and violence abuse and harrassment of us is so widespread it is accepted as inevitable. They are talking about the police and the police response. Who benefits from that? Not Sarah and her family and friends, not bereaved women, and not any VAWG campaign.

I was just saying EXACTLY the same to DH this morning - The Met have played into the hands of extremists. While the pictures are dreadful, i can't help but wonder if some of the confrontations were deliberately orchestrated.

It takes the focus OFF women, and women's need for safe spaces away from all men - even "nice" men (because how do we know? - they don't wear a badge) and put it onto police violence.

I think The Met have been short-sighted and intransigent - but I think this is a police culture which has been nurtured and encouraged by Priti Patel (who is now running backwards as fast as her little feet can carry her) and that Cressida dick, having toed the party line for so long was left with no wiggle room. Of course, she will now be thrown to the wolves (rightly) when it should be Patel who goes first (but she won't ever be called to account or take any responsibility). I wonder who'll take the poisoned police chalice when Dick goes?

The important thing now though, is to get the emphasis back on to women's safety. I wonder how this can be done after this absolutely stinking dead cat has been slammed on the table and poisoned the atmosphere!

Sorry to pull the “but I asked you first” - you haven’t answered the question and are whatabouting a bit, so more clearly, how do you imagine the police could have better managed the anti-police disruptors intent on hijacking last night, by working with vigil organisers? Who are RTS, what experience or expertise do they have in volatile crowd management? I don’t think nice women in tabards attempting to marshall would have had any effect on this crowd, and they themselves could have been at risk.

I’ve seen a few comments along the lines of, if only the Met had worked with RTS - and it is very unclear who RTS are - then the protest/vigil could have been managed differently. If you think that, how do you imagine it could have been managed differently? The self-appointed organisers/leaders on the bandstand - looks like maybe some of the women who were later arrested - were leading anti-police chants (see the Sisters Uncut link that shows this). That’s not about Sarah’s murder, she wasn’t murdered by “the police”. That’s not about protesting violence against women and women fearing walking the streets.

Making the vigil women-only would be an amazing idea - but what would you expect to happen at the cordon keeping men out? The disruptors wouldn’t just behave nicely and turn around and go home when asked to. Do you think the TWAW-believers would be supporting police, or anyone, gatekeeping the event for women only? How could they tell who was a woman (can’t believe that is actually a serious question in this context, but there you go!)?

Honestly I think a trap was laid last night and the Met fell into it hook line and sinker, that is not saying every officer is innocent obviously, there are clear instances on camera of inappropriate use of force and I sincerely hope every one is analysed and participating officers dealt with appropriately. But look, this morning the headlines are not talking about Sarah, or about wider peaceful vigils up and down the country and on doorsteps and online. They are already glossing over the points being raised about how society treats women and violence abuse and harrassment of us is so widespread it is accepted as inevitable. They are talking about the police and the police response. Who benefits from that? Not Sarah and her family and friends, not bereaved women, and not any VAWG campaign.

What a hopeless situation the police are in. It's down to their work that the perpetrator has been arrested and the young woman's remains found.

stumbledin agreed, but I don’t think the problem is that some women in groups don’t know these services are important, they are taken in by groups purporting to be for women when their aim is to get males accepted as women by women, advertising fundraising misleadingly. We are not welcome...eg the one posted for the Leeds event.

Been thinking more about this after a comment on one of these threads. I think the ability to protest in a legitimate (and at the momeny covid safe way) is important. But as someone pointed out Reclaim the night had an agenda they wanted to use this vigil for. This vigil should have been just that - a vigil for sarah and others. Protests should take place at another time.

I see that the usual suspects, the political parasites, are sharing photos of confrontations with the police at Clapham. ie the SWP (which protects male predators who abuse women members of the party), Sisters Uncut and Global Women's Strike who will jump on the bandwagon of any event or march if they think there is a chance of engineering a "look at the police state viciously attacking innocent people".

I have no doubts about police violence, but when predominantly male adolescents go along to perfectly genuine protests just because they want to get selfies of themselves "standing up to the police" I despair.

And sad to say the organisers seem to have been taken in by these entryists going on tv to say if we have been there with stewards none of this would have happened. Sorry sisters, but they would no more have taken notice of your stewards than they did of the police.

If they said anything else the resulting shitstorm would overshadow the murder and the reasons women are seeing this as a final straw

Thereby exposing the hypocrisy of trans activism, which would be a positive thing for Women.

Yea I saw that the would only donate to TWAW so that’s a no from me

I’ll make a direct donation to a woman’s charity - the ones that deal with the cunty type of women

Thecatonthemat - that statement might make you feel very virtuous, but this is an unusual situation, where women have spontaneoulsy come together as a result of male violence. Many my never have heard the arguements about why women only services are important. And as said above with so few women only services left unless we speak up and make them aware.

Mumsnet FWR needs to be more than us just telling each other that we know what is right. We need to some how be pro active and make change. Women's sex based rights have been erased and whole generations aren't even aware it has happened and consequently dont know what it once was and could be again.

Know why the anger but couple of points

If they said anything else the resulting shitstorm would overshadow the murder and the reasons women are seeing this as a final straw

I don't think there's many orgs left that say female only anyway

I think reclaim the night are v TWAW always but in this case pragmatically I would probably look past it.

Obviously individuals should do as they see fit that's just how I feel.

They can fundraise for whichever groups they want. But some of us will be proritising women and girls.