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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scotland passes the Hate Crime Bill

120 replies

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2021 20:12

MSPs have now voted. The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) bill has passed. Voting breakdown: Yes 82, No 32 and 4 abstentions.

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FindTheTruth · 19/03/2021 16:42

fascistic. A political party should not control what we say to one another.

good point this.

ArabellaScott · 19/03/2021 16:18

Oh, interesting. FWS make excellent points.

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NonnyMouse1337 · 19/03/2021 14:08

Baroness Kennedy urged to have sex aggravator added to Hate Crime Bill 'urgently'

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/baroness-kennedy-urged-to-have-sex-aggravator-added-to-hate-crime-bill-urgently-3171862

ErrolTheDragon · 14/03/2021 13:53

Not as good as Massie's piece, but Liddle is about as impressed as one might expect too.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/expressing-opinions-is-banned-so-im-just-going-to-think-this-the-snp-must-go-rq5zzxkjl?shareToken=e2b814b9e37aad245ee0736324549f79

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2021 13:20

Excellent from Alex Massie.

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MissBarbary · 14/03/2021 12:12

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/anas-sarwar-urged-to-help-islamic-scholar-living-under-fatwa-ccrqn8j2p

I wonder if Glasgow Central Mosque will be prosecuted?

I can't think of anything much more hateful than imposing a fatwa on a UK citizen for speaking out about FGM and stoning as a punishment for adultery.

FindTheTruth · 14/03/2021 10:59

excellent article.

'axe-grinder’s charter'

NonnyMouse1337 · 14/03/2021 06:52

Really good article by Alex Massie!

Whatsnewpussyhat · 13/03/2021 13:26

I've actively considered leaving Scotland for the first time in my life

The issue is this shit is spreading everywhere. Nowhere is safe anymore.

UnderHisAye · 13/03/2021 12:59

Same here. I think this has been a very hard week, and I feel exhausted and heartbroken and pretty much hopeless.

ArabellaScott · 13/03/2021 12:13

Daughterofmabel, I've actively considered leaving Scotland for the first time in my life.

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Daughterofmabel · 13/03/2021 11:49

Im heart broken. Dont want to live in a country that hates women

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 13/03/2021 11:07

“No debate” is alive & well in Scotland Angry
mobile.twitter.com/JohannLamont/status/1370653826303295489

Scotland passes the Hate Crime Bill
ArabellaScott · 12/03/2021 17:49

Well it is Friday, Necessary. GlitterballGlitterball

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NecessaryScene1 · 12/03/2021 17:46

I might have told them to shove their working group up their collective non gendered arse...

Damn, you bum-obsessed today, girl!

ArabellaScott · 12/03/2021 17:31

Well done for thoughtfully responding to your MSPs, Under! I might have told them to shove their working group up their collective non gendered arse...

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CharlieParley · 12/03/2021 14:46

@TheShadowyFeminist

Pigeon, that's the whole thing. Every word.

I'm currently formulating my response. The 'holes' you mention will definitely be part of my reply.

You may also wish to add that Lord Bracadale listened to and considered the very same arguments made against including sex from the very same organisations in his review of the hate crime bill and rejected them in their entirety. He therefore recommended adding sex to the hate crime bill.

And these organisations are lobbying groups who receive government funding which they use to lobby government in support of government proposals. The Scottish Government continues to ignore the opposition to its bill coming from a number of non-goverment funded, independent women's rights groups and campaigners and instead holds up the approval it received from those four government-funded lobby groups as proof of listening to women and doing what they asked for. This is deeply dishonest, manipulative behaviour.

Especially since the chair of one (Engender) has repeatedly and publicly insisted that they do not nor do they seek to represent women and they do not nor do they seek to represent the views of their members. So what justification can there be to give the views of a six-woman team who admit to not consulting with women in general on their views and therefore represent only themselves such priority over and above the views of many hundreds of individual women, or grassroots women's rights groups? There is only one reason - they serve as token women conveniently in agreement with the government's plans.

UnderHisAye · 12/03/2021 14:37

I don't see why not, she is literally just outlining what happened, which is already a matter of public record.

greatpurplepolkadots · 12/03/2021 14:33

Is it okay to be posting MSP responses like this? I thought correspondence was meant to be confidential?

MissBarbary · 12/03/2021 14:20

@HerewardTheWoke

This is very concerning.

However I am heartened that there does appear to be a route to challenging it. I didn't realise this but it looks as though the courts have much, much stronger powers over Scottish legislation than over UK legislation. Unlike primary legislation (Acts) of the UK Parliament, it appears there is a much wider set of grounds to JR an Act of the Scottish Parliament.

Not really- there have been several challenges and all have failed with the exception of Salvesen-v- Riddell. The very basic facts there was Holyrood had no right to retrospectively re-write contracts which were freely entered into and were legal at the time they were entered into and impose an arbitrary punishment on a small group of persons who elected, at a specific and limited point in time, to enforce the contracts.
UnderHisAye · 12/03/2021 14:18

Reply for Claire Baker (Labour) to my email asking her not to back the bill:

Since its publication in May last year, Scottish Labour carefully considered the Hate Crime Bill and have noted the many valid concerns which were raised by individuals and organisations about the potential consequences of its provisions.

Prejudice and hate have no place in Scottish society and so it is important that we have clear and robust laws to allow us to tackle hate crime. Scottish Labour are therefore supportive of the principle of Hate Crime legislation and consolidating existing hate crime into one body of law is an important step.

However, there were serious issues with the Bill as it was originally drafted. It was obvious early on that substantial revisions were required if the Bill was to be fit for purpose and it was therefore welcome when the Scottish Government conceded that amendments were necessary. Scottish Labour have always been clear that this Bill must uphold the importance of free speech in a democratic society while also protecting individuals from prejudice.

The Bill underwent a number of very welcome changes at Stage 2 and many of the concerns that Scottish Labour had, especially about Part 2 of the Bill and the stirring up offences, have now been addressed. Intent must now be proved and offences of stirring up hatred will be subject to a reasonable person test; these strengthened protections are positive additions. Provisions relating to the performance of plays and the possession of inflammatory material were also removed. The drafting of these clauses lacked clarity and there were serious concerns about their application so their removal is very welcome.

Some women’s organisations had concerns that a Hate Crime Bill could lack the nuance required to address hate towards women and have unintended consequences. Scottish Labour therefore welcome the establishment of the Working Group on Misogynistic Harassment which was set up to consider the development of a separate offence to address gendered violence against women.

However, Scottish Labour supported arguments that not including a sex aggravator in the Bill could send the wrong message. We supported including sex as a protected characteristic in Part 1 of the Bill, and I voted for amendments in this area. As these amendments were not accepted, we now need the Working Group to conclude its work and legislation on future misogynistic harassment offences brought forward, and provide equal protection for women within the law.

We recognise that provisions protecting free speech will have significant implications for the operation of the Bill. During Stage 2 various freedom of expression amendments were discussed but it was agreed that further work was necessary to ensure that drafting of these sections was acceptable. Scottish Labour take seriously the need to achieve an appropriate balance in the Bill. To ensure protections were enhanced, we have worked cross-party and with external organisations to inform the development of the Government’s Stage 3 amendment. We are glad to see that the Government has listened and that the freedom of expression protections will now apply to all the characteristics in Part Two, rather than the piecemeal approach that was originally in the Bill.

Scottish Labour were determined to see this legislation amended and improved which I believe it has been, and for these reasons, I voted to support the Bill. We need to ensure that it will deliver on its aims and appropriately uphold the rights and protections necessary for a safer and more tolerant Scotland. Ultimately however, tackling hate crime requires more than legislative action, it requires education, societal change and a concerted effort to build a culture of respect and inclusion. I will work to achieve that wider change in Scotland to prevent prejudice, discrimination and hate.

UnderHisAye · 12/03/2021 14:16

@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

I mentioned the few Labour MSPs who had voted against (Jenny Mara, Johann Lamont etc) and he was aware that they are standing down in May so hence their ability to speak up.
It says something about the chilling effect on politicians if they can only speak their truth if they don't need to be re-elected.

In reality, more people would vote for them if they were honest about this! Decisions taken by those at the heads of parties do not reflect the normal person in the street at all.

334bu · 12/03/2021 14:13

Does anyone know if Humans Yousaf's amendment to downgrade need for collection of sex disaggregated data was passed?

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