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Original poster

Worried about independence under the SNP

118 replies

Wandawomble · 11/03/2021 02:37

I’m worried about independence and the hate crime bill. I don’t want to be sealed off in a country that will punish women for defending their sex based rights.
What are others feeling? My DH keeps saying once Scotland gets independence the SNP and their hate crime bill will be out. I don’t believe this. Who to vote for?

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MissBarbary · 13/03/2021 19:47

[quote PearlclutchersInc]@user1471519931 agree - and currently they're the least of all evils.[/quote]
I don't know how any woman or anyone seriously interested in green issues could vote Scottish green.

Patrick Harvie is an unpleasant misogynist, obsessed by trans issues. Wightman, untill he left, was only interested in land ownership.

As Babdoc says the UK ' record on renewable energy is very good. Scotland has played its part- the geography and topography helps.

The renewable sector was boosted by the Feed in Tarrif legislation which was Westminster legislation brought in by a Conservative government.

MissBarbary · 13/03/2021 19:29

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Oh look, resorting to name calling due to an inability to make an actual argument. I have no time for those who cannot argue for their position

Likewise, hence my ridicule.

I must say I'm soo impressed by the quality of your argument.
Viviennemary · 13/03/2021 19:28

Stop worrying. It won't happen any time soon. Sturgeon has made sure of that with her behaviour of late.

PearlclutchersInc · 13/03/2021 19:23

@user1471519931 agree - and currently they're the least of all evils.

PearlclutchersInc · 13/03/2021 19:23

@user1471519931 agree - and currently they're the least of all evils.

user1471519931 · 13/03/2021 19:18

What about our right to be a European citizen? As a woman, that was a fantastic benefit to me that has been taken away. I am a linguist, a profession dominated by women. The SNP are the only party in Scotland and the UK to actually give a stuff about that.

Babdoc · 13/03/2021 19:17

WomeninaDrawingRoom, the UK actually has a better record and stiffer targets for reducing carbon emissions than almost all other major industrialised nations. By far the biggest offender is China, with its reliance on coal fired power stations, rapid industrialisation and no commitment to reducing CO2 on any useful timescale.
Anything extra that we do or do not do in Scotland re global warning is tiny and irrelevant.
Secondly, what “positive changes” do you seriously suggest would result from independence? Or do you regard being £12 billion a year worse off as a positive?

Ifyourefeelingsinister · 13/03/2021 19:14

I wasn't an SNP supporter anyway, but the hate crime debacle has really turned me against them. I am genuinely scared of their anti women ideology, and will be voting tactically in May to try to keep them from a majority.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 13/03/2021 19:12

@Diaryofamadwoman

I just can't vote SNP now.

I expected to support them my whole life.

Well this is the thing about politicians. They do let you down. The older you get, the more becoming a floating voter seems sensible. I totally adored Tony Blair in 1997.
Diaryofamadwoman · 13/03/2021 19:01

I just can't vote SNP now.

I expected to support them my whole life.

WomeninaDrawingRoom · 13/03/2021 18:43

OK let's agree to disagree on indy, lots of people here were never ever going to vote SNP or Green anyway regardless of HC Bill, GRA reform etc.. But who to vote for, to have a chance of change for the better for women? For me, indy offers a better prospect of positive changes than Westminster, it's not about the SNP. Lifting our heads from Scotland, climate breakdown is already hugely damaging to women in the global South e.g. farmers, the majority of whom are female. As we know when any crisis hits then those who are already disadvantaged, like women, come off worst (covid, anyone?) & nobody takes the climate emergency seriously except the Greens. Labour and Lib Dems both twaw etc., Labour through the courts fought equal pay for women in Glasgow for years. Not Tory ever. But not voting just hands power to those who do, I wouldn't in any other area of life let other people make such key decisions for me. So it's a compromise, as ever, and for me that means SNP 1 Green 2.

SunshineLane · 12/03/2021 21:12

Definitely no vote for greens or SNP. We’re in Alex Cole Hamilton land and he voted Yes to the hate crime bill 🤦‍♀️ So that’s another off the list...

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 12/03/2021 20:33

Oh look, resorting to name calling due to an inability to make an actual argument. I have no time for those who cannot argue for their position

Likewise, hence my ridicule.

GintyMcGinty · 12/03/2021 20:30

@babdoc not forgetting the long line of SNP politician scandals, some criminal and/or sleazy, with Patrick Grady MP as the latest just this week.

Babdoc · 12/03/2021 20:23

Excellent news, GintyMcGinty! Shame it took the Salmond debacle, the Hate Crime fiasco, and the loss of free speech to finally wake up SNP supporters to the incompetent dictatorship they were sleepwalking into, but better late than never.
If we can now take the constitutional threat off the table, perhaps the election can be about the mess the SNP have made of the economy, education and the NHS instead.

GintyMcGinty · 12/03/2021 20:16

Take heart - the last 4 polls have NO back in the lead.

Tibtom · 12/03/2021 20:15

@dementedma

Vote tactically, even if its not your preferred party. Just get the SNP out. if they are good enough, they’ll make it back in a few years
And greens!
Tibtom · 12/03/2021 20:14

Scotland hasn't voted Tory for many years yet we have a Tory government and Brexit

25% voted Tory at the last general election and 38% voted Brexit. If two thirds of Scottish Brexit voters had voted remain then the uk would be remain.

dementedma · 12/03/2021 19:09

Vote tactically, even if its not your preferred party. Just get the SNP out. if they are good enough, they’ll make it back in a few years

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 12/03/2021 13:55

@Morgan12

I honestly think I have no options left now tbh. This might be the first time I don't vote.
Please vote anything but SNP/Green. Clipping their wings is long overdue.
NecessaryScene1 · 12/03/2021 13:34

No second chamber

Plus a shitty electoral system. Blair and his fellow bastards made sure that any move towards PR they did were the worst possible ones with closed lists. Angry

Although, actually, I take that back - the SNP just came up with something worse for their internal processes didn't they? Rigged seats and keeping voting totals secret so you couldn't tell which ones were rigged. Blush

MorrisZapp · 12/03/2021 13:22

@ArabellaScott

I don't want to stay under Westminster control with its corruption and contempt for ordinary people (including women)

Up until recently, I would have agreed, only Scotgov seems very keen to replicate the corruption, sex scandals and contempt for ordinary people. The differences being:

  1. No second chamber, so no layer of disinterested but informed ministers to put a check on the political game-playing and power-struggles of the 1st house.
  1. No useful opposition. This is very unhealthy. Neither Labour nor the Tories seem to bother even trying in the past few years - I've wanted to vote for the former but the candidates have just been frankly unvotable.
  1. A very concerning blurring of civil service, judiciary and govt, with all apparently partisan and too close to the govt for comfort. These bodies should all be scrupulously independent and as objective as possible
  1. A huge lack of scrutiny and accountability from the media, with one or two notable exceptions.

Independence given those conditions would seem to me to be madness, I'm afraid. The SNP could have taken the past few years to consult the electorate, to discuss ways to tackle the dificult issues like misogyny, sectarianism, climate change, etc. Instead they have railroaded every ideology they decide is the correct one, run 'consultations' with the express intent of persuading the peopel they're supposed to be consulting, become ever more internecine and full of nepotism, lose themselves in petty wrangles and internal battles, and repeatedly approach any dissent with fury, contempt and arrogance.

No thanks to a country set up on those rules. Politicians are here to serve the electorate, not impose their own personal ideologies.

This is brilliant, thank you for articulating it. Lack of a second chamber and public accountability are huge red flags. Just now it's women getting shafted but who knows who's next? With no checks and balances.
Babdoc · 12/03/2021 11:36

I am so tired of this nonsense about Scotland not getting the party it voted for at Westminster. If you persist in voting for a minority party like the SNP, who only contest 60 seats, that is a self fulfilling prophecy.
I didn’t vote for Tony Blair, but I accepted that a majority in the UK did. I didn’t throw a hissy fit and demand independence for my Tory voting county!
There are a quarter of a million Tory voters in Scotland. We DID get the party we voted for in the last election. Do stop conflating the SNP with the whole Scottish population.

Outoftheshadow · 12/03/2021 11:28

“ A people that will elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims but imposters” - think before you vote

reprehensibleme · 12/03/2021 11:13

Womeninadrawingroom, you'd think no-one in Scotland ever voted Conservative! In the last general election well over 50% of Scottish votes weren't for the SNP. In the last Scottish parliamentary election less than half the votes were for the SNP, so in Scotland more than half the population have a Scottish government they didn't vote for.

It's perhaps a bit disingenuous to use Belgium in your observations above - the union between Scotland and England is of over 300 years standing.

And tbh, the SNP are proving themselves remarkably unaccountable at the moment. And they appear to despise women.

Also, the Tories may not have had a majority in Scotland for years, but it'not long since we had a UK Labour government fronted by Scots - PM, 2 chancellors, so you can hardly claim Scotland is never represented at the top table.