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Original poster

The cognitive dissonance from 'TWAW' women

342 replies

CheeryTreeBlossom · 10/03/2021 23:45

I've seen a few things today on social media which got me thinking: How do "liberal" feminists square up the argument that being a women is a feeling vs the experience we all know?

  1. The awful disappearance of Sarah Everard has led to an outpouring on twitter of women highlighting how they are essentially bound by a curfew all the time (and not just when the police "helpfully suggest" it) and feel the fear of being followed/harassed/assaulted by men in public constantly.

  2. Kamala Harris posted a video on Instagram about the 2.5million women how have left the workforce in the US (similar stats on Guardian about the UK) and it's driven by women being in lower paid work and not having access to childcare when schools close.

  3. This scene from Fleabag appeared on my Facebook feed where Kristin Scott Thomas gives a powerful speech about how women are constantly affected by their bodies through the start of menstruation to menopause. Lots of positive articles from the time it aired:
    www.refinery29.com/en-gb/fleabag-season-2-episode-3

And yet these same women would call others bigots for saying biology matters and instead that feelings are more important to being a woman than anything else?
That to dislike finding myself in an enclosed public space with someone visibly male is phobic, and that our reproductively system has a huge impact in our lives and why women are still discriminated against?

Argh. I'm just sick of being the only one in my friends group that seems to see the hypocrisy.
They say JKR is a nasty transphobe but equally complain about the patriarchy and how childcare costs put women put of work Hmm

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/03/2021 16:15

It does.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 13/03/2021 16:14

Rooty
Have you ever read Gavin de Becker’s the Gift of Fear.

He comments how female socialisation to be polite, kind and understanding puts us in danger from predatory males. One of the things he suggests women are very wary of are males who push boundaries, who try to push you to say yes when you want to say no. Women are socialised to be polite so we smile and make vague protestations instead of bluntly telling them to get lost. I see huge parallels with the TWAW situation. Most women don’t want an intact male in their changing room but we don’t want to be unkind to a specific, possibly vulnerable individual. I think it is our socialisation that is part of the cognitive dissonance.
Patriarchy is bad but TW are portrayed as vulnerable so our socialisation says protect them. Except that, the TWAW approach is a charter for the boundary pushers which is why we have to resist all TW in female spaces as any concessions will be misused by others. TWAW creates a path for unscrupulous men to abuse women even though TW themselves may not problematic.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 16:11

A yes, the old "sex or gender" version of female.

Tiresome! But the Fawcett has form for that , doens't it?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/03/2021 16:04

Beautiful example of the OP:

twitter.com/fawcettsociety/status/1370044882656632838?s=21

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 16:03

I always engage with you. That's a total lie. But not always with whole posts. I don't lie!

I'd need to see the fool who typed that misandry itself is a false concept. I have read someone type that your application was awry.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 15:59

@CuriousaboutSamphire on one of these three threads, someone said 'misandry is a false concept and doesn't exist'. Quote unquote. Not sure how I can have misunderstood.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 15:59

@CuriousaboutSamphire

do you actually read the threads? I only ask, because it has been said hundreds of times over on these topics that it doesnt exist and is a false concept. Yes! And I am not the only one to point out that your understanding of some that has been typed is not what has actually been posted. You are translating, extrapolating, misrepresenting what has been said.

You've done it to me a few times and never had the decency to engage with me when I point it out.

I always engage with you. That's a total lie.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 15:57

do you actually read the threads? I only ask, because it has been said hundreds of times over on these topics that it doesnt exist and is a false concept. Yes! And I am not the only one to point out that your understanding of some that has been typed is not what has actually been posted. You are translating, extrapolating, misrepresenting what has been said.

You've done it to me a few times and never had the decency to engage with me when I point it out.

midgedude · 13/03/2021 15:54

Yes , Online , And IRL
Lucky I have a good verbal word memory

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 15:51

@midgedude

Evidence of what happens to me can only come from me personally

It only had to happen once to say that it can be used in that way

Evidence of what happens at a society level comes from gathering lots of this data

Suggest you post on AIBU to gather such data as that enables votes and reaches a more diverse audience

So I assume that by that you mean that someone said you must be kind and let trans womem inn your spaces? Referencing the be kind campaign directly?
midgedude · 13/03/2021 15:50

Evidence of what happens to me can only come from me personally

It only had to happen once to say that it can be used in that way

Evidence of what happens at a society level comes from gathering lots of this data

Suggest you post on AIBU to gather such data as that enables votes and reaches a more diverse audience

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 15:47

@CuriousaboutSamphire

And nobody is arguing that it doesn't.

What was the point you were making? I've seriously lost that thread now.

(Can you think from/with eyes?)

Well done. I made a mistake. Clever you for pointing it out.

Curious, do you actually read the threads? I only ask, because it has been said hundreds of times over on these topics that it doesnt exist and is a false concept.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 15:47

@midgedude

You don't see it, that doesn't mean it's real

I have never seen a giraffe , still believe other people telling me they exist

Get your head out of that waste paper basket. You're not 3 any more Grin
CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 15:46

And nobody is arguing that it doesn't.

What was the point you were making? I've seriously lost that thread now.

(Can you think from/with eyes?)

midgedude · 13/03/2021 15:46

You don't see it, that doesn't mean it's real

I have never seen a giraffe , still believe other people telling me they exist

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/03/2021 15:46

I think it has been slightly appropriated since then and repurposed to guilt women and girls into allowing male people to choose to use their single sex spaces because they feel that they don't want to use their own.

Yes.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 15:45

@midgedude

That is evidence pet. Unless you think that the words from women don't actually count, that you won't use mere female experiences as evidence
I think misandry' exists.

No evidence, I just think it from my own eyes.

So people can stop telling me it's a false concept yes?

midgedude · 13/03/2021 15:44

That is evidence pet. Unless you think that the words from women don't actually count, that you won't use mere female experiences as evidence

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 15:43

But evidence?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2021 15:37

My lived experience Smile

midgedude · 13/03/2021 15:35

Our own ears

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 15:29

Your evidence being?

gardenbird48 · 13/03/2021 15:25

@RootyT00t

Oh come on garden.

Be kind came from the suicide of a young woman.

And I can guarantee the majority of MN posters peddled it at the time.

I think it has been slightly appropriated since then and repurposed to guilt women and girls into allowing male people to choose to use their single sex spaces because they feel that they don't want to use their own. Hmm
334bu · 13/03/2021 15:19

Yes...but it's a social upbringing. Not biology.

What evidence do you have for that assertion? Transwomen reject their socialisation and are still as likely to be violent / sex offenders as males who embrace their socialisation. The only thing they have in common is their maleness.

SirVixofVixHall · 13/03/2021 14:45

Rooty
Those things are not “opinion” , they are evidently true. In the UK you are statistically more likely to be a murderer, than be murdered, as a male trans person.
In what way is not liking your body being born “in the wrong body” ? I don’t like my thighs, does that mean my body is wrong, and in fact a mistake was made and I should have thin thighs .
Being “kind” has got me into life threatening situations.

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