The cognitive dissonance from 'TWAW' women

"Anyone presenting or identifying as female is equally at risk, and trans women are fundamentally -more- at risk as data shows."

It shows nothing of the sort.

Agree with much of what's been said. The cognitive dissonance is shocking. And along thinkingaboutLangCleg 's line, if you can't explain it, how can you defend it?

I have an 18yr old daughter who recently announced she is trans, she cannot explain what she means when she says "she doesn't feel like a girl" (join the fucking adult world, it's not a feeling! I want to shout at her). Particularly difficult because she is in all other areas rational, scientific (ASD complicates things) and spurns woolly religious or non-fact based discourse

Instead of fighting against regressive stereotypes, this generation has wholesale bought into them - is this what our generation has done wrong? We have been so progressive in our lives, that the next generation has to rebel against us in this way? Bring on that pendulum to smack them in the face as it swings back.

Oh sorry, didn't read your post properly. Ignore me.

No, that's not what is being said. If we had self-id it would allow all men to access female only spaces and predators would not waste any time to take advantage of this.

which to be clear, IMO, is predatory men taking advantage of relaxed safeguarding
I see this opinion expressed a lot and I find it troubling. I don't think TW are predators but I do think they are human and just as likely to commit a crime as anyone else! It seems that we are always having to pit them in a separate category that can't be criticized. I don't think that helps anyone.

Yep.

That's called "don't come after me, I'm one of the good guys."

But they will come after you. Eventually. At some point you'll slip up. You'll get tangled in their words. Or the parameters will shift again and you'll have missed the memo. You'll say the "wrong" thing and they'll come for you. Most of the ones who come after you will be posturing the same way you were and they'll be saying, "see, I'm on the right side. I fight the oppressors. Don't come after me, I'm one of the good guys."

My TWAW days were prompted by witnessing what I would have referred to as 'abuse' of a transwoman colleague on a night out. When I think about it in retrospect it was a few double takes and an unpleasant comment about their appearance.

Unnecessary and hurtful? Yes. Worse than what many women experience on a night out? No.

There was something about seeing a male presenting as a woman being subject to harassment (by other men of course, the females rallied round them) that triggered a horror and desire to bring them into our circle to protect them. Female socialisation, init.

I trained myself to 'see' them as a woman and female pronouns became automatic. I wouldn't have said they WERE a woman but I was able to pull off those mental gymnastics, they were a 'type' of woman.

Even at the time I found their treatment of their wife (from whom they had moved away and kept the transition secret, while maintaining a long distance relationships) troubling. But I wouldn't have blinked at them using the women's facilities - despite being a tall, 60-year-old, who had only just begun to transition.

It’s baffling, isn’t it? I belonged to a Facebook group, the membership of whom were generally quite educated people. I joined a discussion re. Intersectionality and gave my GC view, which was not well-received.

One poster commented that ‘literally thousands of TW are murdered every year, just because they’re trans.’ I questioned this ‘statistic’ as I didn’t believe it was true.

Indeed, after some research, I posted the following statistic for the previous year for the country we were in:

Number of transwomen killed: 0
Number of transwomen who killed people: 20.

I was called a TERF, sent hate mail then ultimately banned from the group.

Agree with the reasons mentioned here.

Isn't it also that some women, especially those with media profiles, may not necessarily believe TWAW but they just chant the mantra so as not to get backlash? They are not even allowed to be silent about it. You see some women tying themselves in knots in apology if they've made even the slightest "mistake". It's painful to see.

I agree with this. There's an element of the religious about it. It's an ideology and they strictly adhere to it, even when their own parameters of womanhood widen to the point of the farcical.

Facts become irrelevant. Feelings are paramount. Two sides arguing facts against feelings are unlikely to get anywhere.

@Doyoumind do you have a link to the Twitter thread. I’m seeing a lot of that on SM and I’m interested to see the stats

Like the whole Bruce Jenner thing a few years back - they bizarrely bestow some sort of unearned "worthiness" or "goodness" to men who want to become women.

Then they paint themselves into a corner where they have to apply this across the board or their whole premise falls apart.

Fast forward a few years and now they've really had to dig their heels in as the scope of what being a "trans woman" means grows ever wider (due to their own incoherence on the subject).

I'm waiting for the day the pendulum swings so far in the wrong direction that it swings back and smacks them in the face.

The consumerist angle is often under-addressed here. Many women, usually liberal and middle class, buy in (literally) to what it means to a women in modern society which is feminine. They claim its empowering and enjoyable. Products and services, sometimes painful and expensive, are sold rapaciously to them. (They are also quite often 'bodi-posi, ironically!) If a man is also buying and doing these things, he must be a woman, right?

This is the main reason why radfems had it right from the start, IMO. We know eyeliner and leg waxing are just steroetypes.

I nearly fell out with my closest female relative about this. I brought up how upset I was about JKR at the peak of the death threats (which I'd have thought anyone would condemn regardless of what they thought she'd said). Relative is full TWAW to the point we had to agree not to talk about it or risk a major falling out. She thought every risk I was worried about (which to be clear, IMO, is predatory men taking advantage of relaxed safeguarding) was theoretical.

She's left wing, early 30s, not had kids or close friends with kids yet, not experienced obvious discrimination or harassment, is well-off, isn't on twitter and is straight. So I just think she won't see it until she experiences it.

DickKerrLadies how about modifying the Xbox approach slightly?

Tell them that they can play and insist that you and one or two friends are allowed to join.

Then use any chat function excessively and make sure to incorporate as much “lingo” as possible. Bonus points for doing it badly.

That might do the trick....

Sometimes when I'm having one of those parenting days I idly muse whether as mums we should embrace the ideology so much that our darling children feel they must rebel against it now it's so boring and dull that even their mums are declaring themselves non-binary and declaring their pronouns to all their friends whenever they bring them round (in the future, of course!).

But then I remember that saying "fine, sit on your arse and play xbox all day then" gets listened to just fine and maybe my reverse psychology is a bad idea

Sorry multiple cross post

Oh I agree there are many problems, I was just musing on the question of how they manage to square it.

Some women are so completely conditioned to bow down to men that they’ll do anything to make them happy, even if that means agreeing that they’re literally a woman.

It’s such a nonsense.

I think it’s partly linked to the idea that TW have done something brave. I think it is underpinned by thoughts like:-
They have rejected traditional masculinity and given away their privilege to become more feminine. They have celebrated the idea of femininity by embracing it. They have joined our gang. They have also struck a blow against toxic masculinity that blights so many lives. In so doing they have made themselves more vulnerable and so we should protect these vulnerable members of our team.
Note how much of the dialogue is around TW not TM.

I don’t agree with this. I accept trans people are vulnerable and need protection from discrimination (their own protections alongside mine). However, many of the TRA have not given up their male privilege at all. They still expect to be heard and centred. I also don’t equate femininity as what being a woman is really about.

Surprised about Helen Lewis, she gets an incredibly hard time for her feminist writing doesn't she?

Name me a younger generation that hasn't believed they were special

Yes, but the irreversible medicalisation to achieve the goal is the problem.

I think it becomes even more baffling when you are currently living with a tween or a teen that is deeply affected by the ideology.

Particularly when you see who might be the loudest supporters fighting to have affirming only medicalised treatment paths. Misogyny comes in different packages but the result is still the same.

Name me a younger generation that hasn't believed they were special: ''i'm not living my life like that; my friends aren't like that; no-one thinks like that any more and anyway, stop fussing I can look after myself. Oh.'

It's infuriating but maybe it's necessary in some way. I wouldn't have wanted to grow up thinking what I think now.

When women my age do it, well then I have less understanding, and less tolerance.