What do you think of Andy Ngo?

So I'm on the fence there.

Did Ngo go and post a story after this event confirming that the conflict at Cider Riot was down to a premdeitated attack by the far right? Did he use the excuse he was fiddling with his phone to warn the venue or the police what was to come?

Here's another example of his journalism, claiming that this photo is the victim of an antifa hammer attack when if you look at the thread it quite clear the 'victim' was the one with the hammer: twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1162972206147743744

Or the time a car deliberately ploughed into a group of peaceful protesters dragging one of them 30 foot down the road and Ngo presented the response to the incident as an unprovoked attack in which the driver was pushed and his car hit as on an innocent motorist: www.jacobinmag.com/2019/08/andy-ngo-right-wing-antifa-protest-portland-bigotry

There is a clear pattern here of dishonest reporting whether intended to minimise far right violence or demonise minorities. Why would he do that if he didn't support the far right movement?

(the last link is well worth reading as a comprehensive analysis of Ngo's role in bolstering far right violence)

With this talk of the "alt right"... I'm not going to worry exactly what that means and how it's defined... I don't really care.

I will just point out that mainstream conservatives and the mainstream left-wing are ALL against violent extremism whether it's on the far-right or groups like antifa.

Or does someone want to argue that the mainstream left-wing actually supports political violence of antifa-style groups? Political violence is good?

So yeah, both sides condemn antifa, and if Andy Ngo is "alt right" (whatever that means) then he is still correct to condemn antifa also.

And does the fact antifa defended themselves make them just as bad?

Again, that's just not how antifa behave in general. Maybe some of the time they are behaving themselves and they get attacked; but I mean, it's their ideology to use violence against their political opponents. (And apparently the police and/or government also.)

Of course if left-wingers are doing a peaceful counter-protest, and they get attacked by the far-right, they have every right to defend themselves. Just the same as people have a right to defend themselves against antifa yes?

Agreed, but you don't have to endorse someones whole stance or like them as a person, to agree with the merit of some of the things they say and liking someone or thinking they are good doesn't mean they are correct. It's black and white thinking.

Yup. His piece about London was ridiculous. But that doesn't mean Antifa isn't a menace. And saying Antifa is a menace doesn't mean that Patriot Prayer/The Proud Boys/whoever else aren't as well.

Have to say jj that I found that video footage inconclusive. Yes , Ngo is tagging along with them, but he's kind of separate to them iyswim. I don't know what led to him walking along with them - he could have just bumped into them and followd along because they would probably lead him to whatever 'action' was going to kick off. That's just speculation on my part though of course.

I didn't see him laughing at them discussing weapons. And he had his phone in his hand the whole time - how is Ben sure he wasn't recording or making notes or something?

So I'm on the fence there.

I see Ngo is taking Rose City Antifa to court, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out, and what evidence the defence may have.

@MissBarbary Not me who mentioned Nazi’s which again has already been clarified .

[quote cinammonbuns]@MissBarbary again where did I say anything about Winston Marshall. You do love to pull assertions out of thin air.[/quote]
Oh dear me. My point was that you have plenty to say about Nazis but nothing actually to say about the specific topic of this thread.

Oh and there's no point of @ at me. I haven't turned that on.

he's a right wing nob, i honestly don't think you can support right wing stances and still be feminist...

Oh ok thanks jj . I scrolled past it thinking it was (yet another) advert.

Anyway, does anyone know how you'd differentiate between alt right and ordinary right?

Only if you enjoy discussions on a chat forum, of course. I'm skint til Tuesday.

[quote cinammonbuns]@SunsetBeetch oh I am sorry, from now on I will make sure I clarify that everything I say is actually my opinion those who may understand.
Instead of saying ‘Cow’s milk is gross.’ I will be sure to say: ‘In my opinion cow’s milk is gross.’ Just for those who may otherwise misunderstand.[/quote]
But that would quite obviously be an opinion though, considering it's a matter of personal taste

[quote cinammonbuns]@SunsetBeetch oh I am sorry, from now on I will make sure I clarify that everything I say is actually my opinion those who may understand.
Instead of saying ‘Cow’s milk is gross.’ I will be sure to say: ‘In my opinion cow’s milk is gross.’ Just for those who may otherwise misunderstand.[/quote]
And that's probably a recharacterisation fallacy
but well done, that is at least not one of the common logical fallacies.

www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-logical-fallacy-of-turning-fact-into-opinion.634974/

This thread is tipped over into the "worth reading" category because of AdHominemNonSequitur playing spot the logicalfallacies. Very amusing.

@AdHominemNonSequitur don’t worry we have clarified I do not need to give evidence for my opinions just as @MissBarbary does not have to. You can stop spamming links now.

Interesting thread. A revealing insight into the tortuous relationship of the left with the religion of Islam. A quote from the literature Andy Ngo was given about women wearing a hijab to avoid molestation is described as racist. We are currently having a national discussion about the right of women to walk in London at night without being molested or raped after the tragic murder of a young woman. I think I might buy a hijab or preferably not go out at all without a male companion.

@SunsetBeetch oh I am sorry, from now on I will make sure I clarify that everything I say is actually my opinion those who may understand.
Instead of saying ‘Cow’s milk is gross.’ I will be sure to say: ‘In my opinion cow’s milk is gross.’ Just for those who may otherwise misunderstand.

That's an appeal to ridicule, another adhominem, a quoting out of context and probably another repetition also. Until you understand burden of proof though, it's going to be circular reasoning.
ding, ding, ding, ding

www.logicalfallacies.org/appeal-to-ridicule.html
www.logicalfallacies.org/ad-hominem.html
www.logicalfallacies.org/fallacy-of-quoting-out-of-context.html
www.logicalfallacies.org/circular-reasoning.html

You just said "He's a right wing grifter". You did not qualify that with it being your opinion. So it reads as a statement of fact.

If you're now backtracking on that, ok fine I suppose. That's your opinion. And opinions are subjective.

Glad we cleared that up.

@AdHominemNonSequitur no I was saying hypocrisy applies to you.
Also I do not know how many times I must repeat myself until you understand. I was using @SunsetBeetch’s logic that because @MissBarbary was stating an opinion she did not need to provide any evidence. It really is like speaking to a brick wall.

is that you refuse to say @MissBarbary needs to provide evidence for their opinion but insist I must

No one thinks you need to provide evidence Ngo is right wing. We all agree on this.
"Grifter" is more questionable but since presumably he was paid money for that London article, I wouldn't argue it.
You barged in accusing LangClegInSpace of being unable to use Google when she was asking for evidence that he is a Nazi. That was the point under discussion and the point where evidence was requested.

You are now saying that you don't claim he is a Nazi. So what was all the aggressive rudeness even about? You think Ngo is a right wing grifter; that's a defensible claim and you are valid, now go away.

hy·poc·ri·sy (hĭ-pŏk′rĭ-sē)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies

1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.

I don't think it applies to @MissBarbary
You've still not looked up "burden of proof" have you.

@AdHominemNonSequitur if we are going to talk about repetition I would take a hard look at your own posts.

For some reason I cannot quote the post but here is the logic I was told we were using.