What do you think of Andy Ngo?

Who let this muppet crash the bar?

Jog on babe.

Meet you at Speaker's

So.

Andy Ngo.

Have hardly heard of him outside of this thread.

Sounds like an old school investigative journalist*
(This is a GOOD THING)

Will do some due diligence on him before buying his works/showing social media support.

As touched upon upthread (I think by Sunset)
killings/attacks/racist abuse of Asian Americans are not just on the rise, but astronomically so: in the Northern America's (especially the U.S.A)

I second Eresh's response.

They ALWAYS attack (physically, or otherwise) minority, organic, grassroots protection groups.

I've not rtft yet but already I'm going to bet we've got the usual Marcusian radical left/SJW arsewash where any even vaguely conservative position let alone a right wing one, or indeed anyone that they don't agree with, is seen as but a bawhair away from all out total fascism and must be righteously fought against (including with actual violence) by those on the side of the angels because they know they are the "good guys"....where's an MN eye roll emoji when you need it?

I just have and I would say that's a pretty accurate summing up!

Antifa/Momentum et al = cancer.

There's an antifa gang and a proud boys gang and a BLM gang and a patriot prayer gang and bla bla bla and none of them really give a shit about the people they identify as representing. It's all just willy waving and kicking each other's heads in and getting one over on the other lot.

YY. Thus it ever was.

[quote Zinco]I don't know much about this guy Chris Elston, but apparently he was just peacefully displaying some signs against trans ideology. Attacked by trans activists. Video in link.

twitter.com/christophelston/status/1370550679606018050[/quote]
Elston is a serial instigator looking for attention. Provoke conflict, get attention, either by being arrested for incitement or receiving conflict, repeat.

He was arrested last year for harassing a Canadian politician.

He's the type of idiot who holds a "make me a sandwich" sign at a women's march.

I don't know much about this guy Chris Elston, but apparently he was just peacefully displaying some signs against trans ideology. Attacked by trans activists. Video in link.

twitter.com/christophelston/status/1370550679606018050

What I see going on here is basically a bunch of testosterone-fuelled gangs, street-fighting and claiming territory. Same as it ever was.

There's an antifa gang and a proud boys gang and a BLM gang and a patriot prayer gang and bla bla bla and none of them really give a shit about the people they identify as representing. It's all just willy waving and kicking each other's heads in and getting one over on the other lot.

This is not OK:

I am so fucking sick of male violence.

"Or the time a car deliberately ploughed into a group of peaceful protesters dragging one of them 30 foot down the road... There is a clear pattern here of dishonest reporting..."

"He drives at the crowd, almost hitting someone, then turns pushing the guy who got in front of him down the road. I've been part of a protest when a driver does something dickish like that, it doesn't matter if they aren't going very fast, it's frightening and dangerous."

So to be clear, it wasn't a deliberate attempt to run into anyone; the car was moving slowly, and no one got "dragged 30 foot down the road".

So your own reporting is highly misleading in this case.

Black Lives Matter don't need to worry about their protests being attacked by the far right, because the boys in blue are there to protect them? You seem somewhat naive about the role, intent and capabilities of the police in these situations.

It's not impossible that a BLM event could be attacked by the far-right, and of course they would have every right to defend themselves in that situation.

But you seem somewhat naive here yourself... there was far more of a problem of parts of BLM being violent and rioting, than of the far-right turning up to attack completely peaceful BLM events.

In fact by your logic, why shouldn't people "physically confront" BLM when they turn up in a menacing way? That's what you are supporting yes?

You keep throwing smeary stuff like anti feminist and racist and nazi around.

Explain yourself.

If you take that as a moral position, you do you. But you have people in this thread defending racism as a minor booboo.

If they have to be marching people into the gas chamber before you take notice, it's already too late.

Even the author of that dishonest jacobinmag article had the momentary decency to say 'To be clear, the attack on Ngo should be condemned', which is more than the antifa fans on this thread can apparently manage.

I say he had the 'momentary' decency because I also had a look at Arun Gupta's twitter stream and it's really unpleasant.

twitter.com/arunindy

Most of it seems to be a boring stream of snark, labelling people as far right lunatics, fascists, white supremacists, fascist collaborators, fascist bootlickers, nazis, kkk, nazi bootlickers etc.

The monotony is relieved by the occasional celebration of someone's death and a bit of back-and-forth about whether it's OK or not to say NYC mayoral candidate Andrew Yang should be pushed into traffic.

He really is quite obsessed with Andy Ngo, who he hilariously calls 'milkshake andy'.

Gupta says 'he is dumb enough to justify someone taking him out with a Mack truck'

He says, 'I was told by sources you included feces-stained rubble with your book to boost sales since it tested well among your demographic'

He says, 'Since you admit you were brain damaged by a vegan milkshake, you are cognitively incapable of grasping ...'

He says Ngo's parents 'were collaborators in the mass murder of their own people'

Then there were these tweets in the screenshots which are not aimed at Ngo. He doubles down on the revolting 'kapo' slur a few more times until Aaron Mate blocks him and then Gupta tweets 'achievement unlocked' with a screenshot of Mate's 'you are blocked' page.

These are apparently the tweets of a grown man.

[quote cinammonbuns]**@AdHominemNonSequitur* don’t worry we have clarified I do not need to give evidence for my opinions just as @MissBarbary* does not have to. You can stop spamming links now.[/quote]
you dont need evidence for opinions (though most people who dont want to come accross as totally idiotic do give some kind of explination, ofter refering to selected facts)
but assertions presented as undesputible truth, then yes, yes you very much do need to present evidence.
espicially if you are smearing anyone who does not accept your belief as a natzi.

I don't think you should prejudge in that way terryleather.

(Even when what you say is spot on .)

I've not rtft yet but already I'm going to bet we've got the usual Marcusian radical left/SJW arsewash where any even vaguely conservative position let alone a right wing one, or indeed anyone that they don't agree with, is seen as but a bawhair away from all out total fascism and must be righteously fought against (including with actual violence) by those on the side of the angels because they know they are the "good guys"....where's an MN eye roll emoji when you need it?

This video gives a good breakdown of the accusations against Ngo.

It really doesn't. One person suggests waiting on the other side of the street, no doubt because they are outnumbered. That doesn't change the fact they deliberately went to a bar with weapons to confront those drinking inside. The protest was over, and had been peaceful, why would they do that? And Ngo is with them all the way, I don't care what we may or may not have heard, he must have seen the weapons and the gloves and the helmets and known what was coming and he did nothing. Important to remember those with him are now facing serious criminal charges for these events.

So he messed up, but corrected himself.

Only because he'd been caught outright lying and so didn't have much choice. He doesn't apologise. Amusing the way he claims the guy being attacked with a hammer stole it from his attacker though. The hammer he decided to bring to a protest, as you do.

The claims that the milkshakes contained cement were spread by the police

Perhaps one reason people shouldn't just leave it to the police to sort out. But the police claim to have had reports, they didn't verify them and those reports came from the far right and were amplified by the far right to the point it became a global myth. There is footage of people drinking those milkshakes, it's an absolutely ridiculous claim.

The driver does not "plough into" the protesters.

He drives at the crowd, almost hitting someone, then turns pushing the guy who got in front of him down the road. I've been part of a protest when a driver does something dickish like that, it doesn't matter if they aren't going very fast, it's frightening and dangerous.

He's currently claiming antifa set fire to Portland Courthouse after a small fire was lit outside the building and which was quickly extinguished by police at an environmental protest yesterday. There is no evidence the fire was lit by 'antifa', the building was never on fire, but neither of those facts seem to matter. He's a propagandist, he lies, and anything he says should be judged on that basis.

Although I know Antifa wouldn't agree, as they are just as likely to attack the police.

Not to mention all the times Antifa kick off when they're aren't any alt righters around. What did all those buildings and cars do to them?

When a bunch of people looking like this turn up on mass in your home city looking for a fight I would suggest that is one of those times.

I disagree. Rather, you let the police handle it if anyone has criminal intentions. You don't attack people just because you believe they are looking for a fight.

Ok jj I've looked into all those incidents and I still don't see any conclusive evidence that Ngo is a liar, or in league with the alt right.

Heeeereee we goooooo

The first incident (actually, incidentS) and accusations by "Ben":

This video gives a good breakdown of the accusations against Ngo.

He confirms some things I already knew/thought and also points out some other things (all backed up).

The claims that the milkshakes contained cement were spread by the police (see here: twitter.com/PortlandPolice/status/1145106839618502656?s=20 )
Ben's video was from May. Andy's assault was in June.
Andy was not near the group when they were discussing weapons (clear from the video).
The group were discussing what they would do if Antifa attacked them. They weren't planning attack (which is what I thought too - and I noted that they also say they are going to use the opposite side of the road) (clear from the video)

The bus and hammer incident:

Andy quoted his own tweet to clarify what actually happened. Yes he got it wrong. I remember that incident and clipped videos were flying around twitter until people started realising there were longer videos that showed a different story (as so happens both on left anf right wing twitter - remember the Covington School kids? - I fell for that one).

So he messed up, but corrected himself.

twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1162927132760166402?s=20

Car incident.

That article is incorrect. Here is what Andy said about that incident:

"As the crowd made their way to a nearby courthouse, they marched in the middle of the street, bringing traffic to a stop though they didn’t have a permit. Kent Houser, 74, made the mistake of attempting to pass them in his sedan. His car slowly pushed against a masked marcher. The crowd surrounded the car and started kicking it. After speeding down the block, Mr. Houser stepped out and was assaulted by the mob. They pushed him and smashed his car with clubs after he managed to get back inside the vehicle. No police were in sight even though the central precinct was blocks away."

This is supported by this video, which is longer than and taken from a different angle to the one in the article.

The driver does not "plough into" the protesters. He's driving slowly, and one of the protesters for some reason thinks it's a good idea to get in front of his car and try and push it. The driver keeps slowly going forward. Nobody was harmed.

Absolutely we all need to challenge our own biases. Doing our own research and not just believing information because it comes from the "right" source is always valuable.

Or does someone want to argue that the mainstream left-wing actually supports political violence of antifa-style groups? Political violence is good?

Were the Stonewall riots good? Or the Battle of Cable Street? Or the Suffragette bombs?

There are times when political violence is legitimate, or even just inevitable. When a bunch of people looking like this turn up on mass in your home city looking for a fight I would suggest that is one of those times.