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Original poster

A new definition of female, brought to you by twitter.

158 replies

PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 14:08

A female academic has posed this question

Please explain to me how a fully transitioned trans woman, who has breasts and a vagina, has orgasms and experiences the sex act in the same way my body does, should be forced to put male, not female, on the census, just because that is on her birth certificate.

Jane Clare Jones has already been on the case, but I thought we might also enjoy taking that apart.

OP posts:
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TheChampagneGalop · 10/03/2021 15:53

She replies
twitter.com/FernRiddell/status/1369612250051469318
"In terms of vagina’s getting wet and having an orgasm - I never stated penetration. You immediately assumed male/female sex acts which says an awful lot about your own issues on this. And that’s gross. You’re just denying another human being’s bodily autonomy. Why?"

Highwind · 10/03/2021 15:52

I define female as a human with the absence of a Y chromosome.

MeltsAway · 10/03/2021 15:46

Well, this poor academic may not have a great sex life if she thinks that orgasms come from her vagina, as opposed to her clitoris.

Neovaginas are one thing, but I didn't think SRS involved artificially constructing the amazingly complex physiology of the clitoris. Or does it?

Original poster
PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 15:43

@Gobbeldegook

I'm so confused
Someone on twitter is being a wally. Cue twitter shouting match, and everyone blocking each other.

I quoted it over here because I thought we'd have fun with arguing over the implications, too. We need a laugh.

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Gobbeldegook · 10/03/2021 15:40

I'm so confused

Original poster
PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 15:35

@ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles

How odd. I thought being a woman was nothing to do with anatomy? 🤔

They do move the goalposts rather often.

Bit transphobic, I thought.

Is she saying that someone isn't a woman just because they say they are, then?

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Jaxhog · 10/03/2021 15:31

But if people don't declare their 'sex' honestly, we're going to have increased cases of 'women' with prostate problems and 'men' having dysmenorrhea. Quite apart from the issues of sport and safe spaces, we will no longer have accurate figures to base sex-differentiated medical research on - just at the time we've finally realized its importance.

At least the 'self-identification debacle has gone.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 10/03/2021 15:29

How odd. I thought being a woman was nothing to do with anatomy? 🤔

They do move the goalposts rather often.

Sophoclesthefox · 10/03/2021 15:20

organic penis

There’s something just completely Mumsnet about that phrase Grin ought it to be free range, too?

The first thing I think of when I think about how to define being a woman isn’t how I have sex. Weird take.

And yes, congratulations on literally erasing yourself, Shon. Brilliant. Future generations will wonder how in the 2020s so much was made of people being trans, when according to the stats, they didn’t appear to exist...

Original poster
PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 15:18

Oh... my... gawd... Champagne. Oh... my... gawd...

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Original poster
PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 15:17

Course it is. But that's also the same kind of impossible as in the first tweet, so...

OP posts:
TheChampagneGalop · 10/03/2021 15:17

Hmm...
twitter.com/FernRiddell/status/1156866529851518977

TheChampagneGalop · 10/03/2021 15:14

It's impossible for a female person to experience anal sex in the same way as a male person, due to the lack of prostate or an organic penis.

Original poster
PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 15:11

Hang on a minute.

I'm sure that on the feminism board we all know off the modern issue of men who pressure naïve young women into anal sex with lines like "all my ex-girlfriends loved it and said it was better than anything else", etc, etc.

Under Fern's reasoning, should it be concluded that women who do enjoy anal sex are actually male? Grin

There's a response and a half.

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HermitsLife · 10/03/2021 15:08

Eteri that is terribly sad. I do worry with more particularly very young people are being encouraged towards a medicalised route as if that will solve all their problems.

Soubriquet · 10/03/2021 15:06

@Pudmyboy

If she says transwomen enjoy sex the same as she does....is she talking about bottom sex? (Not sure if I am allowed to be more specific)
Anal? Grin
Datun · 10/03/2021 15:04

Oh for heavens sake. When they say it's biology 101, they're really not kidding.

This shows a clitoris. It's not an inverted penis. And it has twice the number of nerve endings as a penis even before any SRS.

A vagina facilities menstruation, conception and birth. Although I realise that appears to be news to people who view it purely in terms of penetrative sex.

A new definition of female, brought to you by twitter.
Pudmyboy · 10/03/2021 15:04

If she says transwomen enjoy sex the same as she does....is she talking about bottom sex? (Not sure if I am allowed to be more specific)

Wandawomble · 10/03/2021 15:01

"Vagina" is my first thought when seeing that tweet.

TheChampagneGalop · 10/03/2021 15:00

Which sex act would a male person with a prostate and a surgically created opening where the penis used to be, experience in the same way as a woman with her vulva, clitoris and vagina?
Answer: None.

bourbonne · 10/03/2021 14:59

I just don't understand how someone can be a historian and believe in this stuff. I know she's not the only one, too.

Original poster
PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 14:55

"Enjoy ur erasure" Shon is filling out data gathering documents to say Shon is female and identifies as a woman?

So as far as anyone will know from the census, Shon was born female and never had to do any fighting for trans rights or anything? Shon is literally covering up the existence of trans people?

Okay. Well, if you want to erase yourself...

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Eteri · 10/03/2021 14:54

notyourhandmaid

But that's just it, it's really is a game of luck. Her first friend to have it done, the surgeon did a marvellous job. It's weird to describe somebody's genitals as beautiful, but it truly is a work of art. If she were to change beside you in a public bathroom, unless you were looking creepily close, you would never guess.

The second friend to have it done, I won't go into details but it isn't pretty. If you told me the surgeon was drunk while doing it, I wouldn't despute it, it was very upsetting to see not only the physical result but how difficult the healing process has been. It's been a year and is still not 'functional' or pain free. So yes, we're stearing well clear from any and all conversations regarding bottom surgery for now.

Helleofabore · 10/03/2021 14:54

Odd question, but, as far as I know there is no muscle activity in a Neo vagina. Happy to be told I am wrong here, but if this is the case, then isn't it disingenuous to say that sex is experienced in same way?

Soubriquet · 10/03/2021 14:53

Men can have orgasms being penetrated anally

Does that suddenly make them women?