Conversion Therapy and a Survey of 25,896 LGBTQ youth

And trying to pretend that middle aged transitioning males are the same as young, distraught teens. And demanding they are treated the same

The lack of acknowledgement of who the current cohort of transitioners in the U.K. consists of has been noted repeatedly on this thread.

There is something decadent and fundamentally wrong with a society that turns out distressed children, and then decides the cure must be the children are broken and need drugs and surgery to fit in.

Ereshkigalangcleg 😂

You know when you tell a devout Catholic that you don't believe people are being cured of cancer by the Virgin at Lourdes and they send you a letter to the Catholic Herald as evidence followed up by sections of the bible as evidence. That.

this!

It is almost as if you didn't realise that many of us have postgraduate science degrees or are working scientists and health professionals.

Yes indeed.

Shizuku doesn't seem to understand that a scientific study is not a definitive statement of fact. You can't just do the equivalent of throwing a study on the table and say "There, all sorted". Scientific research is like trying to solve a giant jigsaw puzzle with no picture to guide you, and a box that contains some incorrect pieces. Each study is a piece of the puzzle, but researchers have to work out where it fits into the whole picture, and whether the piece belongs there at all or is an error.

The reason that research papers publish their methodology and statistical analyses, rather than just their conclusions, is so that others in the field can evaluate whether the authors' conclusions are valid, and so that other researchers can, if they wish, replicate the study to make sure the results weren't an anomaly.

Just asking if the same link gets posted over and over, do we have repeat our posts about those links?

Surely there must be a point when these links can get reported as spam.

If you keep your stock answers in a document somewhere you can cut and paste the replies in?

I think sometimes I should get a database of standard answers to save us all a lot of effort

Just asking if the same link gets posted over and over, do we have repeat our posts about those links?

f you are dismissing studies without control groups, you'll want to dismiss the Tavistock study then. You better let the people who are posting it know.

Ah, but the Tavistock study failed to show any benefit. You don't need a control group to show that an effect that didn't happen might have been due to something else.

It is almost as if you didn't realise that many of us have postgraduate science degrees or are working scientists and health professionals.

Any suicide is a tragedy. That still doesn't mean that there is any definitive evidence that the best way to prevent suicide in young trans people is to treat with puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgery.

Conversion therapy is specifically any attempt to force someone else's gender identity to change.

Ok, but without defining the basis for a gender identity, that's useless.

So how about being specific? This is from Julia Serano, who wrote whipping girl, and is often cited as an expert.

"While I never really believed the cliches about women being good for only one thing, I found that sentiment kept creeping into my fantasies. I would imagine myself being sold into sex slavery and having strange men take advantage of me.

It's called forced feminisation"

Are you saying that questioning this motivation is 'conversion therapy'? That 'forced feminisation' is a gender identity?

You mistake is thinking that sex is purely about reproduction.

It is purely about reproduction. Humans come in two generic types, male and female, because that's how humans, as a mammalian species, have evolved to create the next generation of humans to perpetuate the species. If humans had evolved to reproduce by budding clones of ourselves from our fingertips, we wouldn't need sexual dimorphism.

Asks the person who is telling literally thousands of highly trained, highly educated doctors and scientists who specialise in this field that they have got it wrong.

No, what posters on this thread have been saying is that, irrespective of the quality of the science, your interpretation of it is wrong.

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

"METHODS: A total of 55 young transgender adults (22 transwomen and 33 transmen) who had received puberty suppression during adolescence were assessed 3 times: before the start of puberty suppression (mean age, 13.6 years), when cross-sex hormones were introduced (mean age, 16.7 years), and at least 1 year after gender reassignment surgery (mean age, 20.7 years). Psychological functioning (GD, body image, global functioning, depression, anxiety, emotional and behavioral problems) and objective (social and educational/professional functioning) and subjective (quality of life, satisfaction with life and happiness) well-being were investigated."

"RESULTS: After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being."

No control group, no control treatment. For all we know, a comparable sample of trans young adults would have achieved the same outcome with psychotherapy alone.

My friend's child is now a trans boy, and so are all her 5 close friends from childhood. All socially transitioned, one after the other. I mean, what are the odds?

Yep. Same. And all are lesbians.

So your theory is that you are right because thousands of scientist say your are wrong and no scientists say you are right.

You keep appealing to these ‘thousands’ of scientists as an appeal to authority.

You know there was a large cohort of ‘scientists’ who have backed smoking too in the past. Particularly if they were involved in some way.

And yes, when that 2300 odd ‘scientists’ include people who have no relevance, they are rightly questioned.

Seriously, linguists specialists? Or marine biologists who use clown fish as comparators for human sex classification. Plant biologists who probably use asparagus or something to do the same.

Again, there are probably 100s of thousands of scientists who can produce supporting evidence directly supporting two sexes and human reproduction. They don’t because it is proven science already and they don’t see the need to reprove it.

But they also have no interest in destabilizing science or language to allow people to say things like males are females.

And finally, I have university qualifications that allowed me to adequately point out your flawed statements regarding the interpretation of the questionnaire you posted. Yet, you were very happy to tell me I was wrong.

You have parents here posting and telling you our direct experience with teenaged girls here in the U.K. and you are happy to discredit us as well.

30% I have been lurking on this thread from the start and thats exactly the impression I get.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2

It feels like conversion therapy for gay children, say clinicians
Ex-NHS staff fear that homophobia is driving a surge in ‘transgender’ young people

Hopefully the conversion therapy bill will outlaw homosexual children being treated so appallingly.

The court cases happening now in the UK should speed it up so fewer homosexual children are harmed. I hope it happens soon so fewer are damaged for life.

[quote Shizuku]"The world is not going to follow your sex is complicated daftness."

They already are:

not-binary.org/statement/?fbclid=IwAR29fQ9nHtgrIWGMSsSdefR_OWPeMuZEmei0G3oEC31bAP_FThbngykjjtU[/quote]
Bless.

No.

You know when you tell a devout Catholic that you don't believe people are being cured of cancer by the Virgin at Lourdes and they send you a letter to the Catholic Herald as evidence followed up by sections of the bible as evidence. That.

Haven't read the full thread, just the most recent posts. There's a letter in The Times today regarding a particular type of homophobic conversion 'therapy' as happens in countries like Iran, and which also caused the concern to many Tavi staff: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7e1c65e8-8360-11eb-8dc5-6a6f238d9d27?shareToken=91e9436beee370067741e4ebf3b8ff57