Conversion Therapy and a Survey of 25,896 LGBTQ youth

Of course, we can just point Shizaku to the Tavistock and Portland’s own research into the benefits of affirmation, puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones on the mental health of dysphoric children.
No improvement. None.

Why is this posted in feminism? Shouldn't it be in LGBT?

Puberty will make lifelong alterations to their body. Some of those changes will cause them lifelong dysphoria'

Puberty makes natural changes to the body - as well as matures the brain. It is a natural process.

It is nothing like making irreversible changes to a person's healthy body to render them sexually dysfunctional and infertile.

Especially when that person may go through natural puberty and find peace with their gender identity given time to mature.

Puberty is very natural and something everyone goes through. Of course is causes distress in some - but treat that distress, not try to change reality.....

You know what other huge physical change causes distress!? Menopause, and aging in general. I see my parents, and grandparents before me, become increasingly frustrated at not being able to do things they used to be able to do any more, at how their aging bodies are becoming weaker, slower and impotent. But what is the solution? Treat that distress. And live with it....

Puberty will make lifelong alterations to their body. Some of those changes will cause them lifelong dysphoria.

Or they may resolve it. And of course medical interventions make lifelong alterations to the body. Which often cause lifelong health issues.

What makes a child ‘trans’?

if you want to talk about "conversion therapy", you need to look at the transcripts of what staff at the UK's leading gender clinic have said about the young people who use their services:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51806962

Homophobia in families attending GIDS is mentioned in all the transcripts Newsnight has seen.

As well as seeing young people struggling with their sexuality, staff say some parents appeared to prefer their children to be transgender and straight, rather than gay.

In one example, a GIDS clinician describes a young person who had come out as a lesbian and faced homophobic bullying, "within the family and quite openly in school". "Suddenly the young person changed their mind and they started identifying as trans."

In some of these cases, clinicians thought that it wouldn't be appropriate for the patient to be referred for puberty blockers, with one child apparently saying: "My mum wants the hormone more than I do." But staff could be overruled by GIDS director Polly Carmichael, the transcripts suggest.

No such thing as trans children. There are distressed or dysphoric children and then there are trans adults.
Paediatrics as a specialism does not treat children as ‘small adults’, neither should society.

So would there be any agreement here that trying to convert a trans child to cis is likely to be harmful to that child?
This reads like you think identity is immutable and intrinsic to people.
Whereas the reality is lots of peoples identity changes and develops at different times in their lives.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with helping people who are in emotional distress explore the causes of that distress and how it could relate to their identity. I wouldn't call that "conversion therapy " however there is a group of people who term anything other than affirmation as "conversion".
That's how we ended up with the Tavistock/Keira Bell debacle. Because healthcare experts were not able to do anything other than affirmation.

I don’t think people on here ever do advocate trying to convert a trans child to cis. They advocate giving a child space to understand that identity is a very complex and fluid concept, that there are many reasons they may be feeling as they are, and that lifelong alterations to their bodies, which will have impacts they cannot really process and use medication that has not been approved for the process, are not appropriate for children. Viewing that as conversion therapy is an extreme position.

Dealing with all the other shit is not trying to change their gender identity (it may naturally occur of course) it is trying to deal with things that if not dealt with will simply go with them into adulthood. It actually makes me really angry that people are almost actively campaigning that young people are offered a substandard service. Demand good care and there will be no need to have concerns about conversion therapy.

Trapping children into a trans identity with no other options risks conversion therapy of kids who would grow up gay, being made to conform to a "straight" identity.

Depends how to define "convert".

Zapping with electricity and beating with hoses, not OK.

Gently pointing out that they can't become the opposite sex and helping them to accept the body they are in is OK.

The think that makes this "survey" functionally useless is that it conflates, for "conversion therapy" purposes as much as for any other purposes, the LGB with the T.

So, it has a statement "2 in 3 youth in our study reported that someone tried to convince them to change their sexual orientation or gender identity".

So if 100 of those young people reported this, then approx 66 of those 100 say that someone "tried to convince them to change their sexual orientation or gender identity".

Except that the very common practice of telling young butch lesbians that they are "really trans guys" is also very common. Having homophobic parents who'd rather whisk you off to a gender clinic is also very common (see, for example, the testimonies from Tavistock staff).

So we don't know if those 66 are young gay men and young lesbians who have experienced other people telling them they are "really trans", or young gender nonconforming people of any stripe being given information about the options open to them which are not just "transition or die".

Seeing as the study includes discouragement from self-identifying into opposite sex bathrooms with physical harm and discrimination, I’m not inclined to view it as in good faith.
No highlighted comment on physical harm and what type/who perpetrated. That is surely really important.

I just saw the OP questioning what was the review of the Radio4 programme on conversion therapy has to do with feminism? And then this post 🤷🏽‍♀️

“ I think there is a difference between exploring feelings and holistic therapy and conversion therapy, so the terms of what constitute actual conversion therapy would need to be carefully defined too. ”
Totally agree with this. I think there needs to be a differentiation between conversion therapy (of the type that seeks to pursuance someone who is gay that they are straight) is very different to people being given support to explore their feelings, identity and how to beat manage their well-being in relation to their identity.

Are these two things being mixed up here?

I would be interested to see studies into LGB young people in the UK with regard to their experiences of conversion therapy and I think that would be relevant data.

I think T young people could also do with a separate study about their mental health and interventions used.

Conflating the two populations are not helpful because sexuality and gender ID are two completely different things.

I think there is a difference between exploring feelings and holistic therapy and conversion therapy, so the terms of what constitute actual conversion therapy would need to be carefully defined too.

This study doesn't give any useful information for UK policy formation.

the actual number of trans and nonbinary participants
Apologies!

Thank you! Good to know.