Conversion Therapy and a Survey of 25,896 LGBTQ youth

For instance, a child with a penis assigned a boy at birth who has come out as and is living as a girl.”
What does that mean? How does a boy live as a girl? how does a boy realise they’re a girl? How do 3 yr olds (the youngest age included) understand this?
How do they do all this without resorting to gender stereotypes?

I want an answer to this too.

And @Shizuku - you haven't actually engaged with the point that I and many others have raised here, that if you are talking about conversion therapy, you need to start with the "conversion" (newsflash: it doesn't work) of gay young people to "straight", via the medium of "transition".

Until you start having a conversation, and not just throwing dubious "facts" at us, then I will struggle to believe you have come here to talk in good faith.

If being trans is all about gender stereotypes, how could trans girls who are tomboys exist? Why would Charlie Martin be a Racing Driver? Why would Fallon Fox be a martial artist? Why would a close trans friend of mine be a butch lesbian?

I am surprised that people would think being trans is just about stereotypes in a forum where trans people are discussed so extensively.

OP, you post here with this like you haven't read any of our posts here, in this thread you started, or the thoughts of women anywhere else on this site.

I don't believe in gender stereotyping. No gender critical women I know believe in gender stereotyping. The people who believe in gender stereotyping are generally the gender ideologues, the ones who say that some things are for girls and some for boys, so I suggest you direct this question to them.

As for Fallon Fox, well, I am entirely unsurprised that someone born male should take such unadulterated glee in severely harming a young woman.

And if being trans isn't about gender stereotypes, what is it about?

I'm really hoping Shizuku will come back and answer this to enhance my knowledge and understanding...

If being trans is all about gender stereotypes, how could trans girls who are tomboys exist? Why would Charlie Martin be a Racing Driver? Why would Fallon Fox be a martial artist? Why would a close trans friend of mine be a butch lesbian?

What's your answer to this Shizuku?

And if being trans isn't about gender stereotypes, what is it about?

Why would Fallon Fox be a martial artist?

I know the answer to this one. Because Fox likes beating up women.

Puberty will make lifelong alterations to their body.

Allowing a child to be put on hormones to stop a natural process, then staying on hormones for the rest of their lives, will also 'alter' their body in a non reversible way. To me, that is conversion therapy.

Puberty will make lifelong alterations to their body. Some of those changes will cause them lifelong dysphoria.

And prescribing affirmation only treatment can result in people being set onto lifetime and life shortening medicalisation. And for females, many of the effects of that medicalisation is not reversible?

Do you have any research into how many children and teenagers will 'desist' if given time and/or treatment for underlying mental health issues?

And have you seen the recent papers from UK clinicians that point out that some of the statistics you have posted are actually not helped at all by transitioning?

If being trans is all about gender stereotypes, how could trans girls who are tomboys exist? Why would Charlie Martin be a Racing Driver? Why would Fallon Fox be a martial artist? Why would a close trans friend of mine be a butch lesbian?

You realise that the regular posters on this board are all about demolishing gender stereotypes? Don't you?

Op could you please answer how you define a trans child please? I’m
Not clear on when/how a child becomes defined as trans and would be interested to hear your thoughts.

If being trans is all about gender stereotypes, how could trans girls who are tomboys exist?

Could you clarify what you actually mean here?

It's incredibly harmful to associate wanting to be a martial artist or racing driver with one sex excluding the other, and base your arguments on it.

Shizuku. What is a woman?

I think there is general agreement here that forcing anyone to identify with harmful sex stereotypes is harmful hence why 'cis' is such an offensive concept

💯

Are you aware that the female brain, the ones with xx, has a greater risk of dementia and part of that starts to occur in mid life / peri menopause depending on the levels of oestrogen cycling through her brain?

These medical decisions we are expecting children to make are not knowns to adults let alone children.

I think it's important to actually see the stats differences between sexual orientation and gender identity. I don't think the link in the op highlights this at all. Sexual orientation and gender reassignment are poles apart, yet conflated to be one and the same. They really aren't.

I agree that it would be harmful for conversion therapy to be applied to sexual orientation. However I think sex reassignment is deeply homophobic and seeks to convert children physically with consequences that will impact on the rest of their lives. Those consequences range from breast removal, genital surgery, high risk of stroke, hear disease and brittle bones. With such consequences it is imperative that the right checks and balances are in place.

It is essential therefore for children who seek gender reassignment to undergo counselling and a watchful waiting process, to ensure they understand the serious physical consequences of gender reassignment and are able to weigh them up. This is the centre of safeguarding.

It seems to me sex reassignment conversion therapy and sexual orientation conversion therapy are two entirely different things that have been deliberately conflated.

Sexual orientation harms no one and there is no need for conversion therapy. Sex reassignment however can seriously physically harm the individual involved. For this reason people need to be given an opportunity to explore this much further, and the reasons behind it, before making physical life altering changes.

But it's obvious that the two things have been deliberately conflated. James kirkup sums up neatly the tactic of attaching the T to the LGB in order to get ahead of government policy to push their agenda through, whilst hiding in the shadows.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/amp?__twitter_impression=true&s=08

In a heteronormative world, how does a child know if they're gay or want to change sex?

Clothes are just clothes. But children are taught by society to stick to stereotypes.

Picking apart sexuality to prevent a child from making a confusing mistiake and choosing a lifetime of drugs and surgery (and worse) is not conversion therapy.

That's and irreversible decision.

Choosing who you love has no phyiscal implications.

Shizuku, apologies.

But how do you define conversion therapy? What about saying "can you tell me more about what you mean when you say you feel like a girl" "if society had different ideas about what a girl should be like do you think you would feel differently then?" Plus you'd want to explore all the other issues around the child.