Conversion Therapy and a Survey of 25,896 LGBTQ youth

'I won!' ... ... 'Er, no, you lost!'

'But I won!' ... ... 'No, definitely, look ... you lost.'

'I won, I won, I won!' (Stamps foot, screams.)

... ... 'Oh, go and have a game of golf. Loser.'

Cognitive dissonance at its high! @Shizuku
Too many trans kids because society is more accepting, too many suicidal trans kids because society is less accepting.

Blah, blah, blah

Meanwhile there was the first #Detransitioners awareness day on the 12th of March.

If conversion therapy changes someone's gender identity, what exactly is being changed for that person?

And I did not mean to misgender my friend's child. It's just that I am slow and he was wearing pigtails and a little girl dress one year ago.

So your theory is that you are right because thousands of scientist say your are wrong and no scientists say you are right.

Try biologists Colin Wright and Emma Hilton. Rather than a lot of randoms with tenuous to no experience in the field who signed a politically motivated letter.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-dangerous-denial-of-sex-11581638089

Yea let's recap

We all think conversion therapy is bad

But one person seems to think that conversion therapy does not include hormonal or surgical physical conversions

The same person however seems to think that talking about feelings and identity, expressing alternative ways to respond to the feelings is conversion therapy

It's conversation not conversion

They seem to think that such conversations are as harmful as electric shock therapy and other physical actions ( except when the physical actions are from an acceptable set of physical actions )

No one is trying to prove that “conversion therapy” is NOT harmful to trans people .

And you know that. We just want to be clear that everyone understands that the medical affirmative pathway for children causes incontrovertible harm with no evidence of benefit and no one should be criminalised for attempting to help children without pushing this medical affirmative pathway.

But perhaps you will complain that all 55 peer-reviewed studies in that link are invalid?

That particular pudding has been massively over egged, as I pointed out on another thread.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/04/51524/

The studies assembled by the What We Know Project do not prove that transition is the best treatment for gender dysphoria, let alone that it should be the only permissible treatment. Rather, they show that the science is not settled.

Shizuku you said sex was not just to do with reproduction but you seem to be unable to explain why not. Providing a lust of random people is not an explanation. I take it you are therefore not able to explain your position.

What does ‘Conversion therapy’ mean for the LGB?

Does it mean attempting to change their sexuality (ie change which sex they are attracted too?).

Sex. Sexual orientation. Both protected characteristics.

I think you live in a fantasy world.

You cannot see the real world even when it is shown to you because you don't want to see it.

I think you are furious that we are being those awful mummies who won't play along with your game.

That's what I think.

I am bored of your game now.

Arguing with someone who has no understanding of how to read scientific papers and ignores errors clearly explained is boring.

The world is not going to follow your sex is complicated daftness.

You mistake is thinking that sex is purely about reproduction.

What else is it about? Why are there sexes? Why aren't we all the one sex?

But perhaps you will complain that all 55 peer-reviewed studies in that link are invalid?

I too looked at these at the start of this year. And yes. They were irrelevant to the current cohort of young transitioners.

But maybe I missed something. Since you are very familiar with them maybe pick the ones you feel supports your points about young female transitioners and detransitioners.

And perhaps you missed my post about the follow up study done that had a figure above 8% after around 10 years.

So your theory is that you are right because thousands of scientist say your are wrong and no scientists say you are right.

Hilarious.

What is the scientific basis for 76 trans kids in one school?

I think history has shown that a male medical profession frequently misunderstands and mistreat female problems, and teenage transitioner are predominantly female

History has also shown that men will do unethical things for profit. Think of the doctors who said smoking was safe , the climate change deniers, the doctors doing dodgy breast implants and vaginal meshes

How did the cohort of 44 young people with persistent and severe GD who were not treated with GnRHa fare? I couldn't see the control group mention in the study.*

Fuuny you should ask that... May be a question for the ethics committee - the second one with conflicts of interest that approved the study rather than the first unconflicted one which deemed the study unethical.

Believe it or not, there is a reason why thousands of doctors and scientists who specialise in gender dysphoria approve of this protocol.

Again, a study from 2014. The authors of that study, Annelou L.C. de Vries and Thomas D. Steensma have more recently in the last few months come out to say they’re concerned their findings are being applied to a different cohort of children that are presenting now. This was pointed out to you earlier in the thread and there is a link of them expressing their concerns.

And this Dutch study is contradictory to that of the Tavistock’s

So the current massive number of female children. What is best for them?

There are no genetic tests that can unambiguously determine gender, or even sex.

Gender I suppose, but sex? How can any reputable scientist, from any discipline say such a stupid thing?

You certainly seem to think you're the expert on everything anyway, Shizuku. From where do you derive this authority?

I am not your biology professor

Now that is most certainly the truth.

Mind you, hardly anybody on that letter is a biology professor.

That letter is about a piece of proposed US legislation about gender identity. It is not a peer reviewed scientific paper on biology.

Truth != Lies