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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tuesday 9th March - could be a big day

913 replies

Xanthangum · 08/03/2021 18:01

  1. Helen Staniland and Glinner giving evidence to the Commons
  1. Fair Play For Women VS UK Statistics Authority at Royal Courts of Justice at 10am
  1. The Court of Appeal and Harry/ We Are Fair Cop - The Court of Appeal will examine the validity of the College of Police Hate Crimes Guidance

I wanted to start a thread where any major decisions or outcomes and links to anyone live tweeting or online footage. See you back here tomorrow!

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FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 11:02

JC explains Census Order states that one of the 'demographic particulars' that must be asked is 'sex' with options of either male or female. It is a crime not to provide an answer. This is a factual question not one of 'what best describes your sex' /13

highame · 09/03/2021 11:01

I wonder if the judge can smell a rat

NecessaryScene1 · 09/03/2021 11:01

Judge surprised

I fucking love judges.

ONS must never disclose individuals private data.

Isn't personal census info made available in 100 years? Not sure how much that's limited though.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/03/2021 10:59

Unsurprisingly the judge does not seem impressed with the census going live when proceedings were already threatened.

I would read that “problem of their own making” to be a warning that the “it’s too late now” argument won’t work.

Manderleyagain · 09/03/2021 10:59

Here's the link to the live tweeting.
mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1369230649425596416

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:57

Defendant claims we delayed bringing the case - we should have known they would bring this guidance - this is despite the head of ONS saying it would be legal sex at start of Feb. /12

GAHgamel · 09/03/2021 10:57

Judge says "if there's a problem with withdrawing Guidance now it's one of the ONS's own making"
Admittedly too early to call, but that sounds promising...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 10:56

Judge surprised

Oh dear. I have learned that judges don't like being surprised...

Manderleyagain · 09/03/2021 10:56

That's why there's always a big fanfare when the individual census returns are released one century after the census and ppl doing family history can get stuck in.

gardenbird48 · 09/03/2021 10:55

sorry, I don't mean to derail the court reporting.

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:55

Judge surprised that Census website went live a month before Census day. JC explains that people have to change any early submissions if things change before census day. Judge says "if there's a problem with withdrawing Guidance now it's one of the ONS's own making" /11

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:55

Claimant sent pre-action letter on the 19th February. But Census went 'live' on 22nd. Judge questions how people know they can submit as off 22nd Feb. JC explains how people are guided to fill on Census day (21st March) /10

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:54

women who are trying to keep their whereabouts secret for safety reasons

census data returned is extremely confidential and it's a criminal offence to disclose individual private data. the data is used in aggregrate (mass data not individuals) and ONS must never disclose individuals private data.

gardenbird48 · 09/03/2021 10:53

and the undermining of the data quality will adversely affect all of us, including the people that wanted the census changed to suit them.

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:52

So at end of January ONS position was that Guidance should refer to legal sex (birth and GRC only). But when guidance published on 12th Feb is said something different. No explanation from defendant about what changed this fundamental change of position /9

highame · 09/03/2021 10:51

The mess we're in, because of an intransigent, secretive lobby group.

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:51

ok I'll post until 11:30 Grin thanks all

gardenbird48 · 09/03/2021 10:51

I'm sure there are a number of groups of people that quite fancy not filling in the census, bereaved parents for example, being reminded of lost children, or women who are trying to keep their whereabouts secret for safety reasons (I don't know if they get any special accommodation for census purposes?).

This has come about because a group of people threatened to break the law and not complete the census unless the census was changed specifically to accommodate their exact wishes with the result of knowingly undermining the quality of data generated by a billion £ project - just unbelievable.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 10:49

@FindTheTruth

cross post sorry *@AdHominemNonSequitur*
No bother. Want to coordinate? You go, and i'll take over at 11.30?
FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:49

(someone on twitter saying that the ONS Defence Counsel: Sir James Edie QC is a very high powered counsel, so ONS must be taking it seriously)

highame · 09/03/2021 10:49

Don't apologise for cross posts. Post what you can, we get it

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 10:47

JC touches on Iain Bells claim of 'lengthy process of evaluation' that led to the guidance. But points out that Ian Diamond (head of ONS) said on BBC Radio 4 on 28th January it would be legal sex. Plus Bell himself wrote to Prof Sullivan saying ONS had "settled on legal sex" /8

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:46

cross post sorry @AdHominemNonSequitur

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 10:46

Explaining how small misclassifications of males as females can have large distorting effects on female stats. Gives examples regarding crime, education and employment. /5

In 2016 ONS said in its research paper "sex, as biologically determined, is one of the most important variables collected.. it is critical that data collected for gender identity does not adversely impact sex data"

This is the claimants case. That is now does. /6

In the ONS Equality Impact Assessment the defendant emphasises the importance of collecting accurate data on sex. /7

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 10:45

In the ONS Equality Impact Assessment the defendant emphasises the importance of collecting accurate data on sex. /7

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