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Original poster

Tuesday 9th March - could be a big day

913 replies

Xanthangum · 08/03/2021 18:01

  1. Helen Staniland and Glinner giving evidence to the Commons
  1. Fair Play For Women VS UK Statistics Authority at Royal Courts of Justice at 10am
  1. The Court of Appeal and Harry/ We Are Fair Cop - The Court of Appeal will examine the validity of the College of Police Hate Crimes Guidance

I wanted to start a thread where any major decisions or outcomes and links to anyone live tweeting or online footage. See you back here tomorrow!

OP posts:
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GAHgamel · 09/03/2021 12:08

@HamsterV2 absolutely right. The whole point of the census is not to validate our own personal sense of identity, but to provide the Government with the information it needs to plan services both nationally and locally. Answering according to your own "personal truth" rather than objective reality may not necessarily make a vast difference across the population as a whole, but once the data gets sliced up by age it may do, especially given the massive skew towards males in late transitioners. And if those tranches are then further divided up by area, the greater effect a small number of people answering incorrectly has on the balance of the data.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:07

JE: says sex can be a matter of social identification.

Judge: What's 'social identification' if its not self-identification? /37

Not a hermetically sealed concept??

If ANY concept is fixed, it is Sex. It is quite a fundamental concept. We haven't evolved, and neither has our understanding. Not withstanding Clown Fish obvs.

ArabellaScott · 09/03/2021 12:07

*JE: says sex can be a matter of social identification.

Judge: What's 'social identification' if its not self-identification?*

Grin
ArabellaScott · 09/03/2021 12:04

Sia, that info won't be shared for 100 years: census.gov.uk/your-data-and-security

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:03

He's back! /36

Original poster
Xanthangum · 09/03/2021 12:03

Sex is not an 'Hermetically sealed concept' in census law. It could include 'passport sex'.

no thanks, I'll stick to sex with humans

OP posts:
AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:02

Jackie Weaver strikes! Claimant Counsel has disappeared and is now in the waiting room /35

Siablue · 09/03/2021 12:02

@gardenbird48

I'm sure there are a number of groups of people that quite fancy not filling in the census, bereaved parents for example, being reminded of lost children, or women who are trying to keep their whereabouts secret for safety reasons (I don't know if they get any special accommodation for census purposes?).

This has come about because a group of people threatened to break the law and not complete the census unless the census was changed specifically to accommodate their exact wishes with the result of knowingly undermining the quality of data generated by a billion £ project - just unbelievable.

I have to keep my address secret from my abusive ex husband. Is there someone you can talk to at the census to talk about the safety aspect of this?
Thecatonthemat · 09/03/2021 12:02

Thanks for reporting all this. Much appreciated.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:02

JE: Sex is not an 'Hermetically sealed concept' in census law. It could include 'passport sex'. /34

highame · 09/03/2021 12:01

How much do FPFW rely on Bellinger, anyone know?

RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 12:01

@AdHominemNonSequitur

JE: Bellinger defines male and female in reference to marriage only. It cannot be used as a definition for other legislation /33
and yet it was used as the basis for the GRA....
AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:00

I think that refers to www.pfc.org.uk/caselaw/Bellinger%20v%20Bellinger.pdf

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/03/2021 11:59

@HamsterV2
That’s the real crying shame of the whole thing. Trans people need accurate data just as much as women do. How can you advocate for the services you need if the number of trans people is being artificially lowered in the census. It’s going to be a real issue if councils start turning around and saying the census shows fewer trans people than they expected so services can be scaled back or not set up in the first place.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 11:59

JE: Bellinger defines male and female in reference to marriage only. It cannot be used as a definition for other legislation /33

WeAreJackieWeaver · 09/03/2021 11:58

I’ve just sat down with a cuppa to catch up. Even if FPFW don’t win this JR, it’s given me a right ole belly laugh reading the judges comments.

RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 11:57

@highame

I love the way barristers can turn up an argument to defend the absurd, they are very clever that way. A dictionary definition can now be used as a defence?????
Could be ground-breaking:

Prosecution: We are using this dictionary definition to prove the Defendants guilt.

Defence: We are using this dictionary definition to prove the Defendant's innocence.

Judge: Which one of those is the modern dictionary definition?

teawamutu · 09/03/2021 11:57

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Judge speak Surprised = any variant on gobsmacked, appalled, do you think I am stupid, do you think I haven’t spotted the gaping hole in your case.

I am having difficulty understanding = please try again because at the moment your argument is somewhere between unclear and utter bollocks and I am giving you another go so I can decide which it is.

Grin
Whatwouldscullydo · 09/03/2021 11:55

I did nearly spit out my coffee at the "maybe census law is a close cousin of stonewall law" tweet..Grin

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 11:55

JE says that was so gender identity could be voluntary rather than mandatory (like sex is) /32

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 11:54

Census is designed to elicit useful data on different topics. Judges asks why did Census amendment add a new gender identity question if it could have been asked under the umbrella of sex. /31

highame · 09/03/2021 11:53

Even if it doesn't, there's some fabulous sunlight

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2021 11:52

I donated to the crowdfunder for this one.

I've grabbed cuppa and now following as this is easier to follow than the twitter commentary.

Complete nonsense that sex should be 'self determined'. Hopefully this will go our way.

highame · 09/03/2021 11:52

I love the way barristers can turn up an argument to defend the absurd, they are very clever that way. A dictionary definition can now be used as a defence?????

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 11:52

Can the ONS sue Stonewall for providing them with incorrect advice?