Tuesday 9th March - could be a big day

Someone asked if the guidance had been changed. Another poster kindly linked above to a tweet showing old and new guidance yesterday - the passport reference has been removed. (Passport being the thing apparently where you can choose what you like no matter what your birth or gender cert says).

Very good court decision. I understand (from what I read on line) that was the first hearing and they got the order BUT there may be the final hearing in a week or two? That is very common with these emergency injunctions - hearing after hearing - I put clients off them where I can as they end up being expensive although obviously they do have a place - so first the judge decides whether to grant it without much time in court, not much evidence etc as it is an emergency. Then the next stage is a proper full hearing for a final injunction I believe so I suspect that may be the case here.

[quote GAHgamel]**@DisillusionedTech* and @EmbarrassingAdmissions* you might want to take that archer_rs twitter thread with a pinch of salt:
twitter.com/cloudtrapeze/status/1369383322200203277[/quote]
Thank you - I'll ask MNHQ to pull it.

@DisillusionedTech and @EmbarrassingAdmissions you might want to take that archer_rs twitter thread with a pinch of salt:
twitter.com/cloudtrapeze/status/1369383322200203277

Thanks Cailleach1, off to google him now.

Highame it's not a controversial statement in itself, and the same will apply to the EHRC guidance. The issue with EHRC will be whether or not the guidance does in fact do this.

Judge: "I do not doubt that the ONS has the power to publish guidance on the census questionnaire. It is expedient for its functions. However, if guidance is given it must match with the meaning permitted by the act." /67 From yesterday. Does this small statement have far reaching consequences??? I think maybe EHRC should be looking carefully at this one (and the rest)

Yes Bitoffun I think they did it almost immediately

So happy to have gardened for this, although I am neither a UK citizen nor do I live in the UK. This is important for ALL women, everywhere. It sends a message.

Does this mean they've already changed it online?

Feminists force change to guidance on census sex question

Fantastic headline!

Worth noting that ONS brought out the biggest legal gun, James Eadie QC, to defend the case. He is the barrister the government uses for its most important/complex/sensitive legal work. I was a bit worried when I saw it was him but fortunately as ONS's arguments were "bobbins", as previously noted, not even he could do much with them.

I think my donation to the crowdfunder is the best money I've spent all year. 75 quid to defend the concept of sex (and hence my rights that flow from it)? Annoying that I have to do it, but still a bargain. Brava FPFW!

The ONS say " "We are continuing to ask a binary choice, female or male, sex question on the census. This approach is unchanged since 1801."
but this is not true. At no time since 1801 has the ONS believed that people might have difficulty knowing what sex they are, such that they might need to refer to a piece of paper to be sure.

The judge expressed surprise that several million census forms have already been completed, using the rejected advice, since Census Day isn't here yet. Surely someone should be held responsible for this?

The lack of transparency coupled with such odd results does make it look like a deliberate attempt by Twitter to shape public opinion

Doesn't it just.

What a day.

Especially busy for Jason Coppel QC who represented FPFW in the morning and the College of Policing in the afternoon!

Glinner and Helen were great, FPFW have done an amazing thing, the Court of Appeal seems ok so far for Harry the Owl.

I've done nothing but follow and watch snippets in between work and kids etc, and I'm knackered. Hats off to those working hard to preserve our rights.

I can't see The Times not covering it so maybe tomorrow?

I thought the Telegraph coverage / linked upthread was better.

Disappointed that I can't see anything in The Times though.

Yes there's a slightly dismissive tone to it. Almost like ' these women made a fuss about something, the judge agreed with them but still a fuss about nothing'.

It doesn't say who wrote it, or report anything that the ONS actually argued - it is written like the ONS got it right all the time, but there was this court case..................

Still, it's there which is an improvement.

express my huge admiration for Helen. If I understand correctly, she is a software engineer who has not been in the limelight before?

iirc, it was Helen who conceived and framed the questions behind the crowdfunded YouGov survey. And, of course, I can't link you to her tweets or tweeted summaries of it because her Twitter account has been suspended.

This is a MN discussion of it:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3404335-Poll-52-of-people-consider-a-person-who-was-born-male-and-has-male-genitalia-but-identifies-as-a-woman-to-be-a-man

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56338666

On the BBC news front page.

@Manderleyagain You’re right. Dr Nic worked for free from late 2017. I’m not sure when she started being full time but was def so from the GRA consultation in mid 2018 onwards, and started being paid from autumn 2020. Hence the crowdfunder in October was transparent about that being the need. it’s still on a shoe string - everyone else works for free. The Census crowdfunder was such a lift for her I know - really encouraging how everyone supported her, and so fast. You can always visit the website for more gardening 😀 Reading this whole thread is such a treat! 😄

Just been watching some of the Q&A with Graham and Helen. Have already laid flowers at Graham's feet, but also want to express my huge admiration for Helen. If I understand correctly, she is a software engineer who has not been in the limelight before? She is so eloquent and strong! And has such a grasp on it all. What a formidable woman.

Thanks for the link. Glad to see they removed the passport reference (as you can apparently self declare that on the passport - how weird is that! I didn't know that until today)