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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tuesday 9th March - could be a big day

913 replies

Xanthangum · 08/03/2021 18:01

  1. Helen Staniland and Glinner giving evidence to the Commons
  1. Fair Play For Women VS UK Statistics Authority at Royal Courts of Justice at 10am
  1. The Court of Appeal and Harry/ We Are Fair Cop - The Court of Appeal will examine the validity of the College of Police Hate Crimes Guidance

I wanted to start a thread where any major decisions or outcomes and links to anyone live tweeting or online footage. See you back here tomorrow!

OP posts:
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ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/03/2021 12:35

It’s judge speak for “you’re flogging a dead horse with this one and if you keep going I might start to get mildly irritated”

OvaHere · 09/03/2021 12:35

Just placemarking to catch up as I've been out this morning. Seems like it's been an erm...interesting exchange so far. Grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:35

Judge "It seems a bit odd" what he writes is "all the more baffling" /46

TeenMinusTests · 09/03/2021 12:34

it would be funny if the outcome of all this turns out to be that people just could no longer change their sex on their passport at more-or-less will.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:34

JE: There hasn't been a change in position. The form of Guidance was doing to be 'legal/official documents'.

Judge: But Bells email on 28th January suggests 'legal sex according to birth certificates and GRC' /45

highame · 09/03/2021 12:34

JE: Census act says individual must not put a 'false answer'. so its ok as long as individual doesn't think its false when answering /44

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/03/2021 12:34

Sir James is arguing that the parliamentary debate on this question contemplated self id. The judge is politely saying “that is utterly irrelevant as it’s not law. In the absence of a clear statutory definition then a term has its normal meaning irrespective of wittering in parliament.” ie I don’t care what some MP said in the HoC because it’s not relevant to this decision.

justanothernameonthewall · 09/03/2021 12:34

@Xanthangum thanks! I'm out this afternoon but I'll be keeping everything crossed for everyone!

I'm so proud of all the women (and men) that have made all this possible.

WeAreJackieWeaver · 09/03/2021 12:34

Judge "this doesn't really help anyone"

Is this Judge speak for FFS!

Karatema · 09/03/2021 12:33

Place marking so I can find between meetings!

FindTheTruth · 09/03/2021 12:33

JE: it is possible to have a range of answers [to what is your sex].

Statisticians across the UK use the sex characteristic more than any other variable, along with age. They would be horrified by this statement. (it won't have been the hands on statisticians at ONS that made the stupid decision to turn it into self-id)

GAHgamel · 09/03/2021 12:33

@teawamutu

What's the judicial translation of 'this doesn't really help anyone'?
I think "don't waste my time with this argument"
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:32

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

In relation to the answer that can be given it is up to the individual to decide how to answer the question. It must not be 'false'. [as long as the induvial thinks its not false] /44
The good old "everything in the census is self-ID by definition' argument which is so beloved by TRAs
Datun · 09/03/2021 12:32

I mean we always say there is no argument.

But you sometimes think a clever barrister could perform some creative, linguistic miracle, don't you.

But no.

highame · 09/03/2021 12:32

OK so we have contemplation and dictionaries for the defence

RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 12:32

JE: Census act says individual must not put a 'false answer'. so its ok as long as individual doesn't think its false when answering /44

Umm, seriously???

highame · 09/03/2021 12:30

E: Looking at Hansard debate on census draft guidance in 2019. It was contemplating that the answer could be self-identified.

Judge "this doesn't really help anyone" /43

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2021 12:30

A lot of census related stuff is planning. This includes monitoring the fertility rate and the likely number of children to be born in the next 10 years. So you can build the right number of schools, maternity wards etc.

In this respect sex is quite important because its about reproduction. Reproduction is reliant on sex.

Indeed the 1911 census is interesting. The government was concerned about the fertility rate so required all married women to specify how many children had been born to the marriage. This included saying how many children were still alive and how many had died.

There is a historical point. And there is a point about how and why we use services.

There is a point about monitoring change. We can not do this if we use new definitions. It becomes impossible to compare data sets. We can no longer see changes from 1911 etc.

This doesn't me we dont record trans identity. In fact its important it is monitored - but is monitored correctly to reflect sex.

If we don't how do we build for trans specific services (like need for medical services) or monitor how many people are 'out'?

This is such self defeating bollocks that is being argued in court.

RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 12:30

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

9s JE: it is possible to have a range of answers [to what is your sex].

JE referring to Hansard now "I don't think we're in Hansard territory are we" says Judge

/42

What's that about?

Is the ONS Barrister really arguing that no laws in the UK have been passed based on sex?

Thingybob · 09/03/2021 12:30

@Datun

😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
BlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlush
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:29

In relation to the answer that can be given it is up to the individual to decide how to answer the question. It must not be 'false'. [as long as the induvial thinks its not false] /44

highame · 09/03/2021 12:29

I have the sewerage company at around 1.30 lovely

teawamutu · 09/03/2021 12:29

What's the judicial translation of 'this doesn't really help anyone'?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:29

JE: Looking at Hansard debate on census draft guidance in 2019. It was contemplating that the answer could be self-identified.

Judge "this doesn't really help anyone" /43

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:28

9s
JE: it is possible to have a range of answers [to what is your sex].

JE referring to Hansard now "I don't think we're in Hansard territory are we" says Judge

/42

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