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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Conservatives for Women

115 replies

Shedbuilder · 07/03/2021 14:45

Found this, earlier today — the Conservatives for Women website:

conservativesforwomen.org

Their proposals could have been written here on Mumsnet. I'm now, for the first time in my life, having to consider whether instead of just spoiling my ballot I'm going to have to vote Conservative to keep Labour and the Lib Dems out.

OP posts:
gardenbird48 · 08/03/2021 14:18

@ChallengerDeep

I think you have it backwards. We are focusing on women and girls and the laws relevant to us.

If the only laws relevant to you regard self-id you are probably financially more comfortable than a sizable portion of women in this country. Which is good, but I cannot see how it improves collectively the lives of thousands of women who are forced to live on the edge of poverty by Governments who haven't helped them at all.

But I guess their laws to protect women only include the ones who are financially stable.

you may have missed some of the discussions on here but quite a few issues are coming out of the self-id problem. Rapists in women's prisons, sex pay gap, undermining of safeguarding of women and girls in schools etc. women of all ages losing the right to specify same sex hcp's in intimate situations like smear tests, care for older women and rape victims. The list of effects stemming from this one simple issue is rather long and rather fundamental. This isn't a 'luxury belief', this is women retaining our name for ourselves and ability to maintain and advocate for our legal protections.

In fact, it seems to be the women who live well-off privileged lives that are immune to the concerns of women not so well-off who will be the ones who have to use public toilets, council leisure centres, NHS hospitals etc. These privileged women dismiss the problems that they are unlikely to experience and have so little imagination and empathy for the rest of us, that they can't work out why we are worried.

Who will look out for the women imprisoned with rapists if we can't describe why some 'women' are a danger to the others?

RozWatching · 08/03/2021 14:13

Oh fgs, it's not a single issue, gender ideology is already harming kids and vulnerable women.

Besides, it's a matter of credibility and trust - I wouldn't vote for the Flat Earth Party, no matter how great their manifesto sounded.

Floisme · 08/03/2021 14:01

Challenger I'd be interested in your response to Kit19's point. How are you going to protect women when the word no longer exists in law and we only have people with certain anatomical features?

ChallengerDeep · 08/03/2021 13:38

I think you have it backwards. We are focusing on women and girls and the laws relevant to us.

If the only laws relevant to you regard self-id you are probably financially more comfortable than a sizable portion of women in this country. Which is good, but I cannot see how it improves collectively the lives of thousands of women who are forced to live on the edge of poverty by Governments who haven't helped them at all.

But I guess their laws to protect women only include the ones who are financially stable.

DaisiesandButtercups · 08/03/2021 13:19

When Conservative MP’s speak up on women’s issues I notice that they receive a very different response from the rest of their party than the very brave Labour MP’s and councillors who speak up receive from the Labour Party. That is what is having a big impact on my thought processes about how I will vote.

It has even crossed my mind to join the Conservative party and be part of the solution there. The Labour Party have made it abundantly clear that those who believe in women’s rights, accurate data collection, biological realities and freedom of speech are not welcome. I ask myself why am I a member of a party which feels nothing but hostility for people like me? I’m constantly on the verge of leaving.

A pp mentioned pre Thatcherite Conservative values and they are pretty close to my own, family, community, stability including providing for those in society who are in need and having a safety net for everyone who falls on hard times.

I can’t fault what Conservatives For Women stand for or that they choose to be a single issue group. It is fundamental to everything else that we base our society on objective reality rather than the subjective feelings of individuals. Freedom of speech, belief and perception are also pretty fundamental.

Floisme · 08/03/2021 13:05

Sorry Labour Party, I've voted for you all my life but, if you want my support again, you need to come up with something a bit more coherent than, ''How could you?' and 'How dare you?'

Erkrie · 08/03/2021 12:36

As a lone parent I still think it's safer to vote for Tory because things could and would be far worse for women and children under another government 🤷

megletsecond · 08/03/2021 12:29

As a lone parent I cannot vote Tory.
Universal credit, the rape clause on 3rd child benefits, decimated mental heath services, closure of sure start centres, the child benefit penalty for high earning lone parents tells me everything.

RozWatching · 08/03/2021 12:29

I think it's naive to think that Labour's stupidity would somehow be limited to women's rights. The apparent lack of critical thinking is a massive red flag.

Kit19 · 08/03/2021 12:23

women's rights start and end with being able to define that a woman is an adult human female. Without that there are no women's rights, only 'peoples rights'. Given that self ID is not even law in the UK, we've had to fight tooth and nail to push back against the definition of women including men and the erroneous erasure of sex based rights and services.

How will we know austerity, poverty, caring etc affects women more when the definition of women includes men or data is gathered on the basis of gender rather than sex? or when we cant talk about things only affecting women because women also includes men

I wont vote conservative, never have and Im not blind to all the other things they've done which I loathe - like a lot of women, Im politically homeless

WanderinWomb · 08/03/2021 12:20

It's naive to focus on trans issues

I think you have it backwards. We are focusing on women and girls and the laws relevant to us.

I can't disagree with a word in @ConservativesForWomen statement on sex based rights. Not a single word.
As I keep saying , this issue is an open goal for any centre of left party, that they are ignoring it can only be purely mysoginistic, deep stupidity or terrible miscalculation of the electorate's views. No option is making any of them look good.

ChallengerDeep · 08/03/2021 12:11

Austerity, cuts to benefits, housing crisis, all these are things that affect women negatively, and that will only get worse after Brexit and the economics crisis brought by the Covid 19 pandemic.

It's naive to focus on trans issues and think that women's rights start and end with Self-Id. What will their feminist supporters do afterwards? Turn their back to the poor because they have obtained what they wanted?

Floisme · 08/03/2021 12:05

Thanks Wanderin Yeah I followed some of those speeches and I remember thinking there must have been some cross party discussions beforehand. I imagine that's easier to do in the HOL?

TheOnlyKoiInAPondOfGoldfish · 08/03/2021 12:04

As a LP member (apart from a year when I flirted with the Greens) I'm at the "about to rip up my card again" phase.

I've NEVER voted Tory, but my Tory MP knows what a woman is. My Tory auntie is one of the most generous and charitable people I know, my friends WC Tory dad took in one of our school friends when his own dad threw him out.

As we've seen, there are selfish bastards, only looking out for themselves and their cronies, in all political parties - and there are decent people trying to make a difference.

Being a Tory is not being an evil selfish person - it's being someone whose view of what works best for society is very different to mine.

My views used to align with Labour - but their adoption of individualism, and forgetting of any class based analysis, is not the party I joined in the 70's.

Do I not vote? Or do I vote for a party who seems to be holding the line on self ID?

RozWatching · 08/03/2021 12:03

I find it hard to believe that Rayner, Nandy et al are supporting self ID because of some deep seated hatred for women.

Agreed, I very much doubt that is the reason. Whatever it is, unfortunately it does look like the likes of Rayner and Nandy represent the future of the party.

Labour women - and a lot of men, too - have fought hard and achieved nothing. The party won't even stick to the meagre compromise it pretended to offer in the last GE.

WanderinWomb · 08/03/2021 11:56

@Floisme

Do Conservatives for Women and the Labour Women's Declaration group ever talk to each other? Likewise Green Party GC women? Is there any serious prospect of women working together cross party on the issues where they agree?
If you missed it is well worth watching the speeches on the maternity bill and see the parties that those wanting the word Woman are from. Was all apart from the liberal democrats IIRC Hopefully someone can link those threads or parliament TV , I'm "working" so can't at mo.
Floisme · 08/03/2021 11:48

Yes we do talk to each other and we talk to lots of the other non-political groups too.
We are part of the cross-party political group Women Uniting.

Thank you, I will take a look. I no longer feel aligned with any party so this feels like a way forward to me

ConservativesForWomen · 08/03/2021 11:42

@Floisme

Do Conservatives for Women and the Labour Women's Declaration group ever talk to each other? Likewise Green Party GC women? Is there any serious prospect of women working together cross party on the issues where they agree?
Yes we do talk to each other and we talk to lots of the other non-political groups too. We are part of the cross-party political group Women Uniting.

women-uniting.co.uk/

ErrolTheDragon · 08/03/2021 11:29

  • What about the Labour Women's Declaration? They exist too!

https://labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/*

They do - please promote what they're doing!
I'm perturbed that under Events they're showing 'Our next event is a free webinar on Tuesday 20th October 2020: '... not even updating the website doesn't bode well tbh. Sad

Floisme · 08/03/2021 11:26

Do Conservatives for Women and the Labour Women's Declaration group ever talk to each other? Likewise Green Party GC women?
Is there any serious prospect of women working together cross party on the issues where they agree?

Shedbuilder · 08/03/2021 11:15

Everyone I know who's closely involved in the Labour Women's Declaration is in despair and several have said they won't vote for the party in the May elections. They've tried polite debate and it hasn't worked. They know of several GC MPs who are having to contemplate whether they will stand again after coming under immense pressure from within the party to silence them.

These are local elections in May. As I understand it, they are held every two years. So if Labour get the message and decides it does support women, and proves it, in two years we can vote Labour again. It's the only way of sending a message. If we tell the Labour observers at the polls what we've done maybe they'll relay the message back to HQ.

I cannot vote for a party intent on erasing my sex and my sexual orientation. I'm a lesbian. It's a double whammy for me.

OP posts:
Floisme · 08/03/2021 11:14

If the prevailing narrative were to change, I imagine many politicians would follow.
I imagine that too, but it doesn't make me think highly of them.

ConservativesForWomen · 08/03/2021 11:11

Just to be crystal clear, we have no intention of telling anyone who to vote for, nor do we agree with every single policy of the Conservative party. But how does anyone think these policies ever get changed? Not from yelling from outside the party. This is why so many of our sisters in other parties are hanging in there; it isn't everyone's way of doing things, but it's our way.

We are single issue and our declaration is clear:

Women and girls are subject to discrimination on the basis of their sex, and that sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act of 2010.


Women have the right to discuss policies which affect them free of abuse, harassment or intimidation, and have the right to use the language which specifically refers to the anatomy of their biological sex.


Women have the right to maintain their sex-based protections, as set out in the Equality Act 2010. These include female-only spaces such as changing rooms, hospital wards, sanitary and sleeping accommodation, refuges, hostels and prisons.


Women have the right to refuse consent to admit males in single sex spaces or to allow males to deliver intimate services to females, such as washing, dressing or counselling.


Children should be able to access safe spaces and by removing single sex spaces and the ability to ask someone’s sex, that this reduces the ability to safeguard young people.


Women and girls have the right to participate in single-sex sports, to ensure fairness and safety at all levels of competition.


We believe that any individual should be able to dress and express themselves as they wish. However we believe that important distinctions must be made between women and girls, and those who 'identify' as such. If any person can legally be considered the opposite sex then our rights as women and girls can no longer be defended.

We condemn all attempts to undermine or limit the rights of women to self-organise and call upon our Party to actively support these essential freedoms, freedoms already enshrined in law.

partystress · 08/03/2021 11:10

@ConservativesForWomen. I have never voted Tory in my long life, and would find it hard to now, but my word your website is an impressive piece of work and your members seem to have more courage than exists in the rest of the parties put together.

If you could find it in your hearts to get the unequal impact of austerity measures/ cuts to public services up there alongside the fabulous stuff on gender identity and sex-based protections, you would definitely have my vote.