Bristol strip club ban

But marzipan could you not make the same argument about exploitation for many industries? That's why we have unions and employment laws. Surely strengthening those is better than banning something and forcing it underground?

The 'harm' that strip clubs cause seems to be to the marriages

How condescending.

How selfish that you think the rights of a few women to earn money from a business trumps the rights of everyone in the area who is negatively affected. I guess you would have no problem living next door then?

“Why is paying for sexual titillation wrong?”

Because there is, as in many money making industries, far too much scope for exploitation. Do the punters/owners really care about the mental or physical health of the girl who is stripping for them? In this sense it is different from people who strip as a hobby or do burlesque or whatever, although arguable both encourage men to see women as purely there for their pleasure.

With the greatest respect Barbary, how many dancers who work in strip clubs do you know?

You may not be best placed to judge if you have no experience. I've worked in strip clubs on and off for over a decade. I have many friends who work in reputable and skilled industries who also dance. As I mentioned previously there is a crossover with dancers from other disciplines working in strip clubs, from personal experience ballet is the most common.

Anyway this probably won't get very far as you're unlikely to believe me as its anecdotal and you dont know me from Adam (or eve) and I'm unlikely to have my mind changed as it's my loved experience. However if you ever attend any of the FPFW or SFW events I will buy you a drink and we can discuss some more! (If you wanted to of course)

Ironically many ballet dancers go to work in strip clubs after they're ballet career has ended

I don't believe that.

I did find this , very biased article, featuring 3 actual dancers , only one of whom had a limited professional career, who turned to stripping.

www.insider.com/why-dancers-became-strippers-2018-4

I do however like her opinion on the quality of "dancing" in strip clubs.

ThatI can actually dance, as opposed to just walking around and wiggle

While no real dancing is required of performers

I hope the women are ok and that if needed they are allowed sufficient financial support.

Why is paying for sexual titillation wrong?

“How is the power dynamic 'different?'”

Men are physically bigger than women. I’m a short woman, and I often feel intimidated around men because I know how easy it would be for them to overpower me (have been assaulted in the past).

How is the power dynamic 'different?'

Goodness- do you really need someone to explain that? It's so basic , entry level, feminism even I understand it and I'm not a feminist.

A person is still paying another to entertain them with sexual titillation

Indeed - bang on the nail - and it's wrong- regardless of who the buyer is.

Fair enough Barbary, that's your view. However many women enjoy dancing and enjoy the style of pole dancing. I'm unsure why they should not be allowed to do so, to me that appears to be part of the madonna/whore dichotomy. A woman dancing in a leotard is fine, a woman dancing in underwear on a pole, not fine. That also seems to be quite judgemental class wise. Ballet is a high art form, pole dancing is a low one. Both require huge skill and strength and are beautiful to watch.

Ironically many ballet dancers go to work in strip clubs after they're ballet career has ended.

A person is still paying another to entertain them with sexual titillation.

Whats the issue?

“Women have been punished for any expression of sexuality for centuries”

Oh and I don’t think this is about the expression of female sexuality at all. It wouldn’t have a price on it if it was- this is about male sexuality.

“What about women who use male strippers, or go and see Chippendale type shows? Equally deserving of your disgust?”

I think it’s grim. The power dynamic is different, but it’s still grim.

Men go to see the beauty of a naked female form dancing

Oh ha, ha.

And as for "dancing skills" - I don't know how you can keep a straight face posting that. Do you seriously believe for one second the punters are there for the "dancing skills" ?

I'm not sure how asking questions is a dog whistle. I genuinely don't see the difference. Men go to see the beauty of a naked female form dancing. Not just men, lots of the customers are women. I really dont understand how you can look at the history of art and how fundamental nudity and movement are to art.

That's not to say that some men go hoping for sexual favours, but that's a reflection of the club management not the dancers working there.

But seriously do you really think posters who want to ban strip clubs are happy to accept male strippers?

As an aside has it escaped your notice that male strip clubs patronised by leering women don't actually exist?

What about women who use male strippers, or go and see Chippendale type shows? Equally deserving of your disgust?

Also I'm not sure about the bat signal. I've been here for donkeys years, I post on lots of the women's rights threads. There's only one other poster agreeing with me isn't there? We're still in the minority on this thread. Which is fine.

So do ballet dancers and gymnasts sell their bodies? Is it the physical aspect or the lack of clothing? Naked bodies have been the subject of art for thousands of years.

So peak is your end goal a stop to all strip clubs, you believe there is no place for sexualised dance entertainment?

Women have been punished for any expression of sexuality for centuries. The madonna and whore dichotomy is still strong in society. You may not agree with it but many women enjoy and feel energised, empowered, seen by tapping into their sexual energy.

Women who are proud of their skills dancing should not be punished by society.