Parliamentary debate on Monday to ban gay conversion therapy

very true nauticant which is terrifying considering who's advising them

It's a sober reminder that when MPs debate things, even matters they've put themselves forward to debate, they actually often have only a superficial understanding of the facts, and even less understanding of the consequences of what they're proposing.

"conversion therapy falls disproportionately on the trans community"

proposing a framework drawn up by all the major LGBTQ groups

Trans people are 'far and away' the most vulnerable in LGBT, then he goes on to state that 'identity around gender dysphoria is much more challenging to meet than a minority sexuality'.

Did he forget that you don't have to have dysphoria to be trans under the umbrella?

Fifteen minutes in, and already it’s onto trans rather than gay people, who have been the real targets of conversion therapy throughout history 🙄

Crispin Blunt saying trans under siege by conservative groups stopping GRA reform

Crispin Blunt wants to Copy the Australian state of Victoria

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/5577ccbe-d3a1-4dd0-a1d6-81e81a3cea92

Thanks

Just a bump to remind everyone that the Westminster Hall debate on conversion therapy starts at 6.15pm.

Parliament TV has a link to it (currently showing a different debate, the conversion therapy debate follows it.)

Though I tend to shy away from the methods of the Greeks in this area. I'm not sure it's a social good overall.

All of these bills in various countries are Trojan Horses as far as I can see. It's not unimportant that what people are asked to imagine - the kind os stuff with electrodes and asking gay men to watch porn and so on - it already medically discredited and not used, and it's not even particularly commonly used in religious circles, especially outside of the US. There are professional sanctions against using it in many therapeutic settings already as well. Some elements, like forced therapy, are already entirely illegal.

Whenever something is suddenly being put into law, when it's already mostly out of favour, it's a good idea to ask if there is some other goal that isn't explicit.

And it is worrying that it could potentially be in conflict with the idea that in therapy, the patient is largely looking to define their own good outcomes. Which could include changing their own attitude or response to sexual attraction in some way.

Ah, sorry. I see it's not a bill but a petition. Do we know who is behind it?

Who is behind this bill?

I hope so too Rabbit. not expecting much but who knows we might get some truth. and yes the storm front analogy is an odd phrase isn't it?.

to me it feels like the voices on FWR (and WPUK and other groups) are building up making a difference. The fury at our voices. Voices like drops of water building up into a wave and a bigger wave and a Tsunami is coming. Fuckers.

The #nodebate stance worked very well for a while, didn't it? It was integral, because as soon as debate begins, it all falls apart..

will we see a debate though? that's the question. who's taking part in this parliamentary debate? Clinicians resigning from the Tavistock said it felt like conversion therapy for gay children, they knew too many were sent on to puberty blockers that shouldn't have been. gender dysphoria according to mermaids and Stonewall = trans. where's the grass roots LGB voice in this debate in parliament house of commons or house of lords or across public bodies. many homosexual kids go through gender dysphoria when they realise they're attracted to the same-sex, so are gender non-conforming. Most gay or lesbian children resolve gender dysphoria after completing puberty. if the Stonewall version of conversion therapy became policy or law, it would be a hate crime to tell these kids they might not be trans but gay or lesbian.

And we all know that there is homophobia all around us, it gas taken many forms over the decades, but suddenly there's no such thing as homophobic parents who won't accept their gay children, would rather have transgender children

Absolutely. I think this is where the narrative that trans people suffer most in society from abuse and ostracism is necessary, backed up by the suicide stats that are not evidenced by fact. It reinforces the perception that a person can only admit to being transgender because there is no other option.

The challenge with this approach is that the extensive and generous government and social support and acquisition of extra privileges undermines the ‘oppressed’ narrative. So the perception of oppression has to become more extreme - hence criminalising (and having quite a high prosecution rate - 84% for hate crimes against 1% for rape) the misgendering of trans people.

I have worded this carefully to imply no disrespect to any individual- I believe that this comes from a place that disregards the needs and wants of the majority of transsexuals like Debbie Hayton.

If the trans lobby had any real interest in the welfare of trans people why are they excommunicating Debbie and people like Debbie from the trans community? Buck Angel, Fionne Orlander, SophieXY (Twitter) and many other trans people are being ignored, ostracised and vilified by the trans community for trying to get their voices heard - why would that be? Who has made the decision on which trans people are the only Ines who have a say? It doesn’t add up.

If I get banned from here I will use my time very wisely to do even more writing and direct lobbying and protecting my daughters rights and safeguarding- I will not give up on this - I inherited a very stubborn streak from my mother :-)