Parliamentary debate on Monday to ban gay conversion therapy

Would this bill have to go through the HoL?

It's like there is a left-hand and a right-hand thing happening.

Some of this feels a bit like Wile E. Coyote still running in mid-air until Roadrunner points out that he's over the edge of the canyon so he looks down.

They're going through the pre-ordained motions scripted by the Dentons/Yogyakarta/Press For Change/Stonewall groups, but haven't noticed the changed situation.

Or that everyone is watching them.

Including the House of Lords.

I don't understand it. I don't understand how they can decide that a cure for dysphoria is also conversion therapy, when a High Court has just been reading reams about 'cures' for gender dysphoria and know all about it.

It's like there is a left-hand and a right-hand thing happening.

And how telling someone who is gay, that they are the opposite sex, and therefore they are not gay, isn't conversion therapy. As testified by people at the absolute coalface in the Tavistock.

Fucking fuckers.

Sorry, I'm not being very helpful. I used to be 100% for a ban, even argued for it on this board. But these bastards saying these things, glossing over what happened to me so they can do it under clinical cover to other lesbians as long as the use the right form of words. Fucking, fucking fuckers. This is not a ban proposal. It's anti-gay gaslighting. So angry.

3 new gender identity clinics to be opened this year. I think this could be a positive, so long as they don't carry out conversion therapy themselves that is.

I don't know who's speaking at the moment, it sounds like she's a government minister, but what she's coming out with is largely sensible. Mainly I suspect because she's talking about measures to tackle the harmful practices that are actually taking place.

A suggestion that social media companies should ban discussion of conversion therapy on their platforms. Interesting.

How very 2021.

Is this a proper parliamentary debate or is this another of those funny bingo games where someone gets marks for most egregious shoehorning of tropes?

A suggestion that social media companies should ban discussion of conversion therapy on their platforms. Interesting.

That is interesting. And whose best interests would that serve I wonder? Certainly not the public or those seeking to increase their knowledge and understanding for a child.

A suggestion that social media companies should ban discussion of conversion therapy on their platforms. Interesting.

We really don't normally regulate ineffective treatments beyond stopping them making unsupported efficacy claims, right?

Professional organisations often deal with this stuff - ether by banning it among registered practitioners, or by best practice approaches. Those can be quite powerful, after all they are how affirmative therapy came to largely dominate although often it is evidence based.

This is why this is all hanging on the gay conversion therapy thing, I think. It's not really a normal way to deal with an already out of favour treatment model. They are relying on people not questioning it because it's not ok to question supporting gay rights causes in the minds of many, even in very specific/detailed ways. If people object they will call them, not only transphobic but homophobic.

Mind you I think a lot of it is performative too. It's legislation that looks like the government is interested in social justice but actually does nothing and costs nothing.

"There is no need for more research. We've already waited 3 years."

Said in the context of no one in the stream understanding that conversion therapy for gays and conversion therapy for trans people are very different in some respects.

I assume a Bill is going to come out of this. It's going to be a load of apparent sense with a great big Trojan Horse bolted onto it.

stop pray away the gay. and stop trans away the gay. gay people exist and trans people exist. This legislation must not inadvertently stop a therapist from exploring the background for same-sex attracted youth presenting as trans. if this legislation enforces the affirmation model it will lead to more Keira Bells ...... So what is the Australia / Madrid model? what safeguards for gay kids?

Apparently there's twice as much conversion therapy being offered to trans people than to gay people. Like NecessaryScene1 says, what is this? Why can they give examples that relate to gay people but no one seems to be able to do the same for trans people?

I'm just leaving this link here for any lurkers interested in how this all took hold in the way it did. A few years old now, but a good read. And the fact that the T is attached to the LGB, deliberately, lends much weight to how this has all come about so quickly.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/amp?__twitter_impression=true&s=08

I was reading about this recently, though, and the argument was roughly that MPs aren't really supposed to or don't need to have in-depth knowledge - that is what expert witnesses, advisers etc do. MPs are more of a sort of conduit between constituents and the govt.

Precisely. Showing that the input of the experts etc must be made highly transparent.

Who are all these people doing the conversion therapy that need to be stopped? Can they point to some organisations? Who, specifically, is being criminalised here?

GenderGP? (Lol)

Anyway, even if it's happening, surely if it's consenting adults, how can we stop them? I don't think we've managed to ban homeopathy yet have we?

We really don't normally regulate ineffective treatments beyond stopping them making unsupported efficacy claims, right?

It's interesting to see how the speeches have a schizophrenic character, when the talk is about concrete practices and actual harm it's about what happened and happens to gay people, but when the talk is about those affected, much of the focus is on trans people.

Absolutely. It's so telling.

It's also very frustrating, but unsurprising, that there is no recognition that watchful waiting, and counselling before a child is set on a medicalised pathway for life, are being thrown in with bodily harm and torture by those claiming that trans people are more highly impacted.

Too fucking angry to speak.

when MPs debate things, even matters they've put themselves forward to debate, they actually often have only a superficial understanding of the facts, and even less understanding of the consequences of what they're proposing.

I was reading about this recently, though, and the argument was roughly that MPs aren't really supposed to or don't need to have in-depth knowledge - that is what expert witnesses, advisers etc do. MPs are more of a sort of conduit between constituents and the govt.

Wish I could remember where I read it, now!

Hur hur, the honourable member for Livingstone said #superpowers. Mind, her speech was reality-based and not about #genderwoowoo.

It's interesting to see how the speeches have a schizophrenic character, when the talk is about concrete practices and actual harm it's about what happened and happens to gay people, but when the talk is about those affected, much of the focus is on trans people.