Trans rights don't effect women's rights.

As AS says, the only real evidence in terms of crime is that trans women are less of a risk:

www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

However, I don't think many trans people would care one bit if there were more protections in women's prisons against trans offenders who offend against women e.g. sticking them into some trans unit...and I'm pretty sure that 99% of trans ppl would argue that prison authorities should do a better job of assessments. Just as Karen White should never have been in a women's prison (they weren't even transitioning at the time), Tara Hudson (an actual mostly transitioned trans woman) should never have been getting sexually assaulted in a men's prison.

Most of the rest of the stuff is already covered - worried about trans women in women's spaces? Well they've been using the most appropriate spaces for all your lives and if a particular organisation is concerned, they're within their rights to exclude trans people from spaces under the exemptions within the EA2010. It's incredibly rare that they do, because like everyone else, 99% of trans people just wanna pee or get changed without hassle.

You'll note that I used 'appropriate' - this is because it's always been left in the hands of trans people to make those decisions. For instance, I'm a trans person who is hidden..so I'm medically transitioning, but it will be quite a while before I socially transition..for me to go into the women's would be ridiculous, but equally for someone like Katy Montgomerie to go into the men's would be equally as ridiculous.

Does any of this sound crazy? Yet I'm one of those scary 'TRAs'

A lot of the problems are due to misinformation and because the trans community is very laissez faire (we have to be).

In all honesty, we didn't want the visibility, but it was foisted on us. Few actually cared that much about self-ID (in the UK, most areas are self-ID already thanks to the EA2010), but we got years of hideousness because of it. What we do actually care about is discrimination (which despite legislation, is bad), not having to wait 3+ years for healthcare (pre-pandemic, god knows how bad it is now), about the increase in hate crimes and about going for a god damn pee in peace.

Anyway, not sure this message will get past the mods, so I should quit.

You have been sharing these spaces with trans people for years, probably without even realising it or without ever being attacked by an unhinged transwoman

This simply isn’t true. Refuges, prisons, sports, girls schools, guides etc have not always admitted transwomen.

It’s interesting to note that the conversation always gets dragged back to “restrooms”, which don’t exist in the Uk, for a start, and which can quite easily be changed to facilities for men, ones for women, and mixed sex for those who don’t mind.

In the UK there was no official segregation by race. There weren't public facilities or schools that were for people of one colour or another. There weren't separate drinking fountains. In the 1940s my white father went to school with a couple of black children (and this was in a part of the country which is still overwhelmingly white).

I do get irritated when people take a situation that happened in a specific part of the US (and there wasn't even segregation across the entire country there either) and South Africa and imply that it happened in the UK.

Furthermore, even when there was segregation in other countries, toilets and changing rooms were still separated by sex - ie black women did not share changing rooms with black men.

I am tired of 'analogies' that are nothing of the sort.

Just once, I'd like to see them address the bottom line here. Sexual dimorphism in mammals. Why can't they accept that we won't bend our minds out of shape to accommodate at bizarre obsession with changing sex?

In fact there are protections in place in the Equality Act which ensure that they have the right to use whichever restroom they like.

Those protectons are there for a reason.

You have been sharing these spaces with trans people for years, probably without even realising it or without ever being attacked by an unhinged transwoman.

Sex segregation and race segregation aren’t at all comparable, nancy.

Race segregation: the dominant class (white) excluded the subordinated class (Black) from facilities due to their being perceived as lesser humans.

Sex segregation: the dominant class (men) are excluded from spaces that the subordinated class (women) need for reasons of dignity and safety, and to be able to access public life.

They’re not remotely the same. If your premise is that women don’t ever need sex segregation in sport, prisons, refuges etc, then please do make that case.

Actually I can blame her because I was abused and was made to care for my siblings so I couldn't attend school as often.

That seems a very specific and personal thing to mention in this context. There are quite a few threads on here with good support in that area. Search for 'we went to stately homes' for a starting point.

If you really do want to discuss women's rights to single sex spaces why not try what I suggested earlier? Use my questions at 7.55 as a jumping off point.

You are not achieving anything by being confrontational. It can't feel good to be on the defensive like this so why not try an actual conversation?

nancywhitehead Transwomen aren't banned from toilets.

However, males are encouraged not to use women's toilets, and transwomen are male.

In the UK, access to toilets isn't one of the major issues feminists are concerned about. The focus here is on on refuges, prisons, sports, women-only short lists, the right of women to refuse intimate exams or searches from a male person, and so on. The key to it is that in some cases we need to acknowledge reality, and the reality is that transwomen are male.

Humans don't change sex. Sexual orientation is based on sex. So, no, males who identify as women are not lesbians if their sexual orientation is for the opposite sex.

I have a test question for you as well.

If transwomen are really women, why does society listen to them and concede to their demands? Why are they not told to back off and be kind? Why do people not pretend not to hear what they're saying?

That yes a trans woman can be a lesbian

So lesbian no longer means female person attracted to people who share the same sex? Is that not homophobic?

No one is banned from anywhere, simply when it’s appropriate such as in prisons, refuges, changing rooms & public toilets to be in the space that accords to their birth sex

And they call us hysterical....

Hi OP, you’ve made a lot of statements but not backed them up with any facts. That approach won’t get you far on this platform I’m afraid. Nor will saying “nernerner I deliberately started this thread to be a reporty nuisance”

People with penises shouldn’t be in prison with women. It’s as simple as that. I don’t believe trans women are any more likely to commit violent/sex crimes but as many female prisoners have been abused at the hands of men and are extremely vulnerable they must be protected at all costs. Nothing is worth the risk. A third space is necessary.

*Firstly, there are plenty of lesbians and women of colour on this board, so kindly don't co-opt our struggles against us.

Secondly, gay people and people of colour have never claimed their civil rights by demanding that other vulnerable groups give up rights that they have fought for and that are protected in law. Nor have they demanded that people deny material evidence and say things that they know not to be true.*

OK well "Firstly" you don't know whether or not I fall into either of those categories myself.

Secondly, the point I was making was that people in the past have banned certain groups from hotels, bathrooms and other public spaces, out of fear, discrimination, thoughts that people were dirty, wrong, violent, or whatever other disgusting beliefs they felt could justify those actions.

You could make this exact argument against a person of colour by saying that a person of colour once was violent to someone or once attacked someone. Trans people are a section of society and within that there will be trans people who are criminals, just like there would be if you drew from any other section of society. It will be an extremely small percentage and people get completely fixated on it. Due to their lack of understanding and fear, they then use it as a way to be exclusionary. This exact thing happened in the past with people of colour and gay people who were deemed to be violent and dangerous.

sexuality is there's and it

*their

Thank you for making me laugh OP, I expect it’s time to get ready for home schooling now

Oh, yes, of course, the mother was abusive. Bad women. Bad.

Oh, and yes, blaming your mother for your spelling and grammar? That tells me everything I need to know. Funny how you know what a woman is when it comes to finding someone to blame.

Love that mum gets the blame for shit SPAG

there are plenty of lesbians and women of colour on this board, so kindly don't co-opt our struggles against us.

I imagine OP's next stop is the black MNer threads to tell them off for being so preoccupied with race.

You passed the test. I wanted to confirm this was a transphobic platform and you've all done that. In less than 30 minutes might I add!

Er, where is the transphobia? "Not capitulating to what I say" is not transphobia. Grow up. This isn't the students' union where everyone has to chant a mantra. I see that you haven't been able to actually challenge any of so-called "transphobia" (i.e. facts) that people have set out here.